Class 730 LNR & WMR Delivery/test Updates

[Bletchleyite]

Interesting. I wonder if this might be to end Class 350 working in the West Midlands, recognising that post COVID 10.730 will be too long for a lot of south WCML services but 5.730 too short, with 8.350 being very much a sweet spot? While 6.730 might work well on e.g. the Liverpools?

 

[ABB125]

Modern Railways are reporting (as a postscript to a Class 196 article) that the Class 730 order is being modified, with a greater proportion of 3-car units. Will be interesting to see how LNWR will utilise this altered fleet.

That's a reduction of 9 carriages, if I've done the maths correctly. I wonder if this pays for the extra cost of more cabs?

 

[778]

Interesting. I wonder if this might be to end Class 350 working in the West Midlands, recognising that post COVID 10.730 will be too long for a lot of south WCML services but 5.730 too short, with 8.350 being very much a sweet spot? While 6.730 might work well on e.g. the Liverpools?

I am not sure 10.730 is too long for souh WCML. Some trains out of Euston with 8.350 are completely rammed. Do we expect the interior still to be 2+2 seating for all units?

 

[Roger B]

Modern Railways are reporting (as a postscript to a Class 196 article) that the Class 730 order is being modified, with a greater proportion of 3-car units. Will be interesting to see how LNWR will utilise this altered fleet.

WMT has also ordered Class 730 Aventra EMUs from Alstom. This order has changed from the original plan for 36x3-car and 45x5-car units, and now comprises 48x3-car and 36x5-car units. Three-car units will enter service first, initially on services out of Euston, before they are introduced in the West Midlands area from late 2023.

So that's an increase of in the 3-car 730/0 fleet of 12 sets (730037 to 730048, 36 cars), and a decrease in the 5-car fleet of 9 sets (45 cars), a net decrease of 9 carriages - but an increaase of 6 driving cars from what was previously ordered.

Which of the two 5-car sub-classes (730/1 - 29 sets, 730/2 - 16 sets) is being reduced - or perhaps the number of sets in each sub-class is being revised, with a net reduction of 9 sets?

It seems like quite a late change to the order (unless this is old news, only recently being made public), with deliveries undeway, and presumably, contracts will have been placed in the supply chain (and are in the process of being fulfilled) aligned to the original order. It would be interesting to understand the financial implications.

Perhaps WMT are taking the long view, looking at projected demand over the expected lifetime of the fleet, and decided that the revision to the fleet size optimises total cost of ownership over the lifetime of the fleet. They must have a great deal of confidence in their crystal ball! Or perhaps, and more likely, the change is being driven by our omniscient masters in DfT?

 

[43102EMR]

So that's an increase of in the 3-car 730/0 fleet of 12 sets (730037 to 730048, 36 cars), and a decrease in the 5-car fleet of 9 sets (45 cars), a net decrease of 9 carriages - but an increaase of 6 driving cars from what was previously ordered.

Which of the two 5-car sub-classes (730/1 - 29 sets, 730/2 - 16 sets) is being reduced - or perhaps the number of sets in each sub-class is being revised, with a net reduction of 9 sets?

It seems like quite a late change to the order (unless this is old news, only recently being made public), with deliveries undeway, and presumably, contracts will have been placed in the supply chain (and are in the process of being fulfilled) aligned to the original order. It would be interesting to understand the financial implications.

Perhaps WMT are taking the long view, looking at projected demand over the expected lifetime of the fleet, and decided that the revision to the fleet size optimises total cost of ownership over the lifetime of the fleet. They must have a great deal of confidence in their crystal ball! Or perhaps, and more likely, the change is being driven by our omniscient masters in DfT?

What I can imagine is that WMT want to have a more uniformed fleet on West Midlands local services and keep the 350s solely on WCML local work; rejigging the order this way likely helps them to achieve that. The 730/0s are also authorised for passenger use, whereas the /1s and /2s are still a long way off, so that may also have something to do with it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I am not sure 10.730 is too long for souh WCML. Some trains out of Euston with 8.350 are completely rammed.

It is too long outside of the high peaks, yes.

Do we expect the interior still to be 2+2 seating for all units?

Yes.

 

[Energy]

What I can imagine is that WMT want to have a more uniformed fleet on West Midlands local services and keep the 350s solely on WCML local work

The original plan was 16x730 for the Liverpool services and 29x730 for the Tring and MKC services. (And the 36 for WMR)

Id expect LNWR to put the 730s now only on the MKC and Tring services, which would benefit from 12 cars.

 

[43102EMR]

The original plan was 16x730 for the Liverpool services and 29x730 for the Tring and MKC services. (And the 36 for WMR)

Id expect LNWR to put the 730s now only on the MKC and Tring services, which would benefit from 12 cars.

Pretty sure the LNR 730s were going to be used on all WCML services? I know the /2s were specifically for London to Birmingham.

Bare in mind the LNR ones are 5 carriage units, so would be 10 car workings on the West Coast. I reckon they’ll be used on all services alongside the 350s, especially as the layout has been confirmed as 2+2 for all units.

 

[Energy]

Pretty sure the LNR 730s were going to be used on all WCML services? I know the /2s were specifically for London to Birmingham.

According to Modern Railways, London to Birmingham is 350s, rest were 730s (with the 2+2 for Crewe and Liverpool).

Bare in mind the LNR ones are 5 carriage units, so would be 10 car workings on the West Coast. I reckon they’ll be used on all services alongside the 350s, especially as the layout has been confirmed as 2+2 for all units.

The 730s and 350s are incompatable so it makes more sense to keep them seperate (multiple unit working is pretty important on LNWR). Keeping them as 10 cars on the stopper services (which would use up those carriages) makes sense.

The switch to 2+2 may be after realising that the middle seat on LNWR services isn't used a lot. Assuming that they are just unbolting the third seat, the spacing between seats will still be quite small so there should be a lot of standing space.

 

[Razorblades]

It seems like quite a late change to the order (unless this is old news, only recently being made public), with deliveries undeway, and presumably, contracts will have been placed in the supply chain (and are in the process of being fulfilled) aligned to the original order. It would be interesting to understand the financial implications.

Interesting indeed; for certain Alstom will be tight-lipped over this. However, given the fleet's late delivery, there's a strong likelihood that this variation to it will have been part of negotiations, over associated liquidated damages for which Alstom could by now have been liable.

 

[Halish Railway]

What should be considered is that there are various services around the West Midlands that were once LNWR services but are now WMR, Rugeley to London Euston, Birmingham International from December, so clearly the long term ambition is for these to stay as WMR services, separating out operations and with this change of order, rolling stock.

I do wonder how WMR will use these extra 730s. A solo 730 will not provide enough capacity on the Birmingham International to Rugeley and Wolverhampton to Birmingham New Street/Walsall stopping services, but the platforms used at Rugeley Trent Valley and Wolverhampton used for terminating trains are not long enough for a pair of 730/0s.

 

[Bletchleyite]

What should be considered is that there are various services around the West Midlands that were once LNWR services but are now WMR, Rugeley to London Euston, Birmingham International from December, so clearly the long term ambition is for these to stay as WMR services, separating out operations and with this change of order, rolling stock.

I do wonder how WMR will use these extra 730s. A solo 730 will not provide enough capacity on the Birmingham International to Rugeley and Wolverhampton to Birmingham New Street/Walsall stopping services, but the platforms used at Rugeley Trent Valley and Wolverhampton used for terminating trains are not long enough for a pair of 730/0s.

Are you sure? Those services were all traditionally 3 car 323s.

 

[Halish Railway]

Are you sure? Those services were all traditionally 3 car 323s.

The times I’ve been on a Wolverhampton service leaving New Street it’s been a 323 or a 350 with all the seats taken.

 

[60159]

As it stands I believe 005 and 012 are at Oxley. These two will potentially be swapped with 008 and 009 at Bletchley next week, those two units are due back at Oxley for exam.
001 and 010 have received some modifications and will be out on test tonight and tomorrow, possibly Wednesday too on the southern end of the WMCL.

002/6/7 have all been accepted by WMR...location unknown, 003 and 004 are still with Alstom, 004 has been out on test on the WCML, 003 is at Old Dalby I think.

Went past today. 5, 12 and 14 there as expected but also 4.
Wrong forum but 196110 at Salop, several 196s at Tyseley, and 5 197s at Chester.
Would be good if someone cut the shrubbery at Tyseley!

 

[ABB125]

Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but are these Class 730 test paths? Running Oxley-Lichfield-Longbridge-Northampton-Oxley via Stafford

Realtime Trains | 5Q60 0815 Oxley Car. M.D. to Lichfield City C.S. | 17/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q60 0815 departure from Oxley Car. M.D. to Lichfield City C.S. on 17/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q61 1025 Lichfield City C.S. to Longbridge Reversing Sdgs | 17/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q61 1025 departure from Lichfield City C.S. to Longbridge Reversing Sdgs on 17/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q62 1205 Longbridge Reversing Sdgs to Northampton River Sdgs | 17/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q62 1205 departure from Longbridge Reversing Sdgs to Northampton River Sdgs on 17/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q63 1411 Northampton River Sdgs to Oxley Car. M.D. | 17/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q63 1411 departure from Northampton River Sdgs to Oxley Car. M.D. on 17/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[800001]

Apologies if it's already been mentioned, but are these Class 730 test paths? Running Oxley-Lichfield-Longbridge-Northampton-Oxley via Stafford

Realtime Trains | 5Q60 0815 Oxley Car. M.D. to Lichfield City C.S. | 17/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q60 0815 departure from Oxley Car. M.D. to Lichfield City C.S. on 17/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q61 1025 Lichfield City C.S. to Longbridge Reversing Sdgs | 17/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q61 1025 departure from Lichfield City C.S. to Longbridge Reversing Sdgs on 17/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q62 1205 Longbridge Reversing Sdgs to Northampton River Sdgs | 17/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q62 1205 departure from Longbridge Reversing Sdgs to Northampton River Sdgs on 17/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Realtime Trains | 5Q63 1411 Northampton River Sdgs to Oxley Car. M.D. | 17/10/2022

Real-time train running information for 5Q63 1411 departure from Northampton River Sdgs to Oxley Car. M.D. on 17/10/2022. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

They will be yes

 

[ABB125]

They will be yes

Thanks

 

[moogal]

It is too long outside of the high peaks, yes.

I regularly use the south WCML services (Northampton/Milton Keynes terminators) off peak and 8.350 services are frequently very busy even in the middle of the day and especially in the evenings. While they might not be standing room only, 10 carriage trains certainly wouldn't be carting fresh air around most of the day.

 

[778]

According to Modern Railways, London to Birmingham is 350s, rest were 730s (with the 2+2 for Crewe and Liverpool).


The 730s and 350s are incompatable so it makes more sense to keep them seperate (multiple unit working is pretty important on LNWR). Keeping them as 10 cars on the stopper services (which would use up those carriages) makes sense.

The switch to 2+2 may be after realising that the middle seat on LNWR services isn't used a lot. Assuming that they are just unbolting the third seat, the spacing between seats will still be quite small so there should be a lot of standing space.

Does this mean that all of of the stations on the WCML south of Leighton Buzzard (apart from Watford Junction?), will not have any 350s stopping there, when the 730s are delivered?

 

[Energy]

Does this mean that all of of the stations on the WCML south of Leighton Buzzard (apart from Watford Junction?), will not have any 350s stopping there, when the 730s are delivered?

Its not confirmed what routes will have 730s following the order change, assuming its similar to the previous plan then I'd be suprised if they didn't put the LNWR 730s only on Tring and MKC.

 

[SCDR_WMR]

Its not confirmed what routes will have 730s following the order change, assuming its similar to the previous plan then I'd be suprised if they didn't put the LNWR 730s only on Tring and MKC.

Considering DIs up at Crewe are currently being trained on 730s currently I'd say they are 99% coming up further than that given they only sign to Rugby (Hillmorton technically).

 

[Energy]

Considering DIs up at Crewe are currently being trained on 730s currently I'd say they are 99% coming up further than that given they only sign to Rugby (Hillmorton technically).

Interesting, wonder if this is a hangover from the original plan for units to Crewe and Liverpool.

Previously it was:
29x730 for MKC and Tring
16x730 for Liverpool and Crewe
Remaining 350s (not on local services) on London to Birmingham services

Now its only 32 730s for LNWR then that it would be very weird to put 16 730s on Liverpool and Crewe leaving 16 730s to have to mix with 350s on other services.

 

[Razorblades]

730004 noted passing Wylde Green around 9.41 today, looking well in the autumn sunshine.

 

[AJDesiro]

Its not confirmed what routes will have 730s following the order change, assuming its similar to the previous plan then I'd be suprised if they didn't put the LNWR 730s only on Tring and MKC.

Spoke to a WMT exec on the first day of 196 service today, he said that all slow line services on the south wcml will be 730s. Crewe-Euston is also 730s. Euston-Northampton-Brum still 350s. Brum-Crewe still 350. Can’t remember what was said about Liverpool, but I think that’s also 730s. The LNR 730s will all be 2x2 with an intercity layout (tables armrests etc).

 

[Energy]

Spoke to a WMT exec on the first day of 196 service today, he said that all slow line services on the south wcml will be 730s. Crewe-Euston is also 730s. Euston-Northampton-Brum still 350s. Brum-Crewe still 350. Can’t remember what was said about Liverpool, but I think that’s also 730s. The LNR 730s will all be 2x2 with an intercity layout (tables armrests etc).

Interesting. If Crewe to Birmingham is 350s then I'd expect Liverpool to Birmingham to be 350s.

Im guessing Crewe To Euston will be a single 730, when I've used that service with double 350s before its been very quiet, admittedly after an off peak avanti just left.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Im guessing Crewe To Euston will be a single 730, when I've used that service with double 350s before its been very quiet, admittedly after an off peak avanti just left.

You say that, but I'm fairly sure a peak time London Crewe service was (pre-COVID) the busiest single service in the UK in terms of passenger loadings. That and a London Woking stopper.

 

[Energy]

You say that, but I'm fairly sure a peak time London Crewe service was (pre-COVID) the busiest single service in the UK in terms of passenger loadings. That and a London Woking stopper.

Avanti or LNWR services? The one I got on yesterday was an off peak following an Avanti but there was less than 10 people in the car I was in.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Avanti or LNWR services? The one I got on yesterday was an off peak following an Avanti but there was less than 10 people in the car I was in.

LNWR London Crewe. I'm not aware of any peak Avanti services that terminate at Crewe.

 

[Kite159]

Avanti or LNWR services? The one I got on yesterday was an off peak following an Avanti but there was less than 10 people in the car I was in.

London - Crewe wasn't running yesterday due to engineering works on the Trent Valley, they were only running to Rugby for a replacement bus towards Stafford.

 

[Energy]

London - Crewe wasn't running yesterday due to engineering works on the Trent Valley, they were only running to Rugby for a replacement bus towards Stafford.

Sorry, meant Saturday and forgot it was Monday today.