Class 710 LO

[Roger B]

378 Was on Wembley yard on Friday When i went by . I have not seen it in service.

Many thanks BRblue33. I'll leave it as 'not yet in service' on my database.

 

[SeaKing]

378 was on Willesden Depot by tube lines this afternoon.
377 was on Euston - Watfird Junc
272 on Gospel Oak-Barking.

 

[Peter Sarf]

I was at Bethnal Green yesterday (02/08/2021 15:48-18:04) and saw 26 of the 30 710/1s. That is all except 710117, 710119, 710125 & 710128.

By about 17:15 the 710/1s were repeating and then 710259 & 710273 came through !. Is this normal ?.

This led me to believe that iI was not going to see any of the outstanding four in traffic. I also suspected that 710259 & 710273 were substituting. So I decided a fly past of Ilford was necessary. At the very East end of Ilford right by the running lines but behind bushes and a fence were 710117 & 710119.

I thought I saw anther 710 over the back but I could not see the complete unit or a number - probably 710125 or 710128 of course.

 

[Kite159]

I was at Bethnal Green yesterday (02/08/2021 15:48-18:04) and saw 26 of the 30 710/1s. That is all except 710117, 710119, 710125 & 710128.

By about 17:15 the 710/1s were repeating and then 710259 & 710273 came through !. Is this normal ?.

This led me to believe that iI was not going to see any of the outstanding four in traffic. I also suspected that 710259 & 710273 were substituting. So I decided a fly past of Ilford was necessary. At the very East end of Ilford right by the running lines but behind bushes and a fence were 710117 & 710119.

I thought I saw anther 710 over the back but I could not see the complete unit or a number - probably 710125 or 710128 of course.

Don't forget there is a 710 out working Romford - Upminster services which might account for one of your missing ones

 

[Peter Sarf]

Don't forget there is a 710 out working Romford - Upminster services which might account for one of your missing ones

Damn !. Thanks for reminding me.

In other news I saw 710376 & 710377 of Watford to Euston services in amongst 710/2s. But I thought the 710/3s were for Gospel Oak to Barking ?. As far as I know there is only one other 710/3 delivered - 710378. So I presume some/many of the Gospel Oak - Barking service are 710/2s ?.

 

[Kite159]

Damn !. Thanks for reminding me.

In other news I saw 710376 & 710377 of Watford to Euston services in amongst 710/2s. But I thought the 710/3s were for Gospel Oak to Barking ?. As far as I know there is only one other 710/3 delivered - 710378. So I presume some/many of the Gospel Oak - Barking service are 710/2s ?.

The 3s were for the North London Line, 4 coaches is the maximum for the Gospel Oak - Barking line

 

[Chiltern006]

what routes were they originally eant to be destined for again, and are they still going ahead?

 

[JonathanH]

what routes were they originally eant to be destined for again, and are they still going ahead?

IIRC, the six 5-car 710s are for Richmond / Clapham Junction to Stratford services to release 378s for an uplift in services on the East London Line.

See https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-710-lo.145774/page-26#post-3713617 for the official line on this.

 

[Peter Sarf]

The 3s were for the North London Line, 4 coaches is the maximum for the Gospel Oak - Barking line

Thanks for the info. I have never noticed a 710 on the North London Line but I suppose with five left to be delivered it might be unlikely. When will they be delivered - I assume not yet required ?.

I noticed a few 378s on the Euston - Watford Junction line.

 

[JonathanH]

Thanks for the info. I have never noticed a 710 on the North London Line but I suppose with five left to be delivered it might be unlikely. When will they be delivered - I assume not yet required ?.

I noticed a few 378s on the Euston - Watford Junction line.

You aren't going to notice a 710 on the North London Line if the only two in service are operating on the Watford DC line. 378s presumably need to continue on that line to maintain driver competency.

 

[Peter Sarf]

You aren't going to notice a 710 on the North London Line if the only two in service are operating on the Watford DC line. 378s presumably need to continue on that line to maintain driver competency.

Makes sense. I wonder when we will see the full fleet of 710/2s and 710/3s ?.

 

[JonathanH]

Makes sense. I wonder when we will see the full fleet of 710/2s and 710/3s ?.

710/2s around the time that Barking Riverside opens. 710/3s clearly less certain.

 

[Peter Sarf]

710/2s around the time that Barking Riverside opens. 710/3s clearly less certain.

Thanks.

 

[greatkingrat]

You aren't going to notice a 710 on the North London Line if the only two in service are operating on the Watford DC line. 378s presumably need to continue on that line to maintain driver competency.

All the drivers on the Watford - Euston line also drive on the North London Line so there is no problem with keeping up competency on class 378s.

 

[AventraFlex]

Does anyone know why Class 710/3s are being used on the Watford DC Line? I travel on the line to work (can’t believe 49 year old Bakerloo trains are still running btw). But for the Overground there are now technically 3 train types - Class 378s, Class 710/2s and 710/3s. Why so many for one line?

Aren’t the 710/3s meant to be running on the North and West London lines by now to replace the 378s meant to be headed for the East and South London? And I’m surprised 378s are still used on the Watford route as well

 

[JonathanH]

The cycle on the Gospel Oak to Barking line needs six units. The cycle on the Watford DC route needs eight units. Some of the 710/2 fleet is deployed on the West Anglia routes. There are 16 710/2s in service (from a fleet of 18).

There aren't enough 710/2s not to require the use of 710/3s or 378s on the Watford DC lines.

 

[AventraFlex]

I see. I didn’t know about 710/2s being used on the West Anglia. Is the full 710/1 fleet not in service yet?

 

[swt_passenger]

This is the relevant thread:

Class 710 LO

Hi all, apologies if there's already a thread on this unit but I couldn't seem to find any. With a lot of new units being built over the next few years, I find it remarkable how quiet the 710s progress is, considering they're meant to be in service in little over a year. Does anyone have...

www.railforums.co.uk

But the “end game” announced in the TfL board papers was for the DC to eventually be four car only. When the 710/3s were ordered it was on the basis of their use on the NLL/WLL to release 378s to the ELL for frequency increases that are yet to happen.

And so in the meantime some stock is used on other routes than it was ordered for.

 

[AventraFlex]

This is the relevant thread:

Class 710 LO

Hi all, apologies if there's already a thread on this unit but I couldn't seem to find any. With a lot of new units being built over the next few years, I find it remarkable how quiet the 710s progress is, considering they're meant to be in service in little over a year. Does anyone have...

www.railforums.co.uk

But the “end game” announced in the TfL board papers was for the DC to eventually be four car only. When the 710/3s were ordered it was on the basis of their use on the NLL/WLL to release 378s to the ELL for frequency increases that are yet to happen.

And so in the meantime some stock is used on other routes than it was ordered for.

Thanks for the link. I’ll take a look at it

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks for the link. I’ll take a look at it

The TfL justification for the last 9 units ordered is copied here, in post #758.

Class 710 LO

Personal view is that the rail safety Taliban need there terms of reference rewriting to take into account the higher risk to passengers who move to other form of transport due to there actions. To take things to extremes im sure armoured trains would be very safe but the public would take to...

www.railforums.co.uk

but obviously that’s a few years ago now…

 

[Paul Jones 88]

Would 378s ever turn up on West Anglia inners and would the Liverpool Street to Watford service return?

 

[JonathanH]

Would 378s ever turn up on West Anglia inners and would the Liverpool Street to Watford service return?

No - they have five coaches on a four / eight car railway [1] and the traincrew don't work them.

No - not in anyone's plans and not a good use of track capacity (eg scarce capacity at Liverpool Street)

So we have that the Euston to Watford route is the only one that both 4-car and 5-car trains can (realistically) operate.

[1] I appreciate that 305s once operated in 9-car formations on West Anglia inners but that is a long time ago and not relevant.

 

[Kay_M]

Morning all

May I ask what the reason was for the class 710 to have the longitudinal seat. I was aware that the Lea Valley lines were supposed to have a similar setup to how the Metropolitan line is set up but it got dropped.

 

[20atthemagnet]

Morning all

May I ask what the reason was for the class 710 to have the longitudinal seat. I was aware that the Lea Valley lines were supposed to have a similar setup to how the Metropolitan line is set up but it got dropped.

Because capacity was favoured. When your hands are tied infrastructuraly for a considerable time, it makes sense to maximise capacity which is what they chose in the end. Barking Gospel Oak won’t be able to go up to 5 carriages for some time, Lee Valley won’t be able to go anything longer than 8 coaches for a long time and has to serve a 70,000 capacity stadium. Although it’s never really had to test it to the max yet because of the pandemic.

Keeping the 710/1 and /2 the same spec also means you can can borrow units from each side without losing capacity. 710/1s fill in sometimes on the Barking Gospel Oak and 710/2’s show up on the West Anglia although they are not compatible with one another in service.

 

[Kay_M]

Because capacity was favoured. When your hands are tied infrastructuraly for a considerable time, it makes sense to maximise capacity which is what they chose in the end. Barking Gospel Oak won’t be able to go up to 5 carriages for some time, Lee Valley won’t be able to go anything longer than 8 coaches for a long time and has to serve a 70,000 capacity stadium. Although it’s never really had to test it to the max yet because of the pandemic.

Keeping the 710/1 and /2 the same spec also means you can can borrow units from each side without losing capacity. 710/1s fill in sometimes on the Barking Gospel Oak and 710/2’s show up on the West Anglia although they are not compatible with one another in service.

I think somewhere down the line this could be possible. Similar to how the 315s were like when they used to be in Ilford full time. At first the Lea Valley lines and the Shenfield metro wasn't interchangeable but they made modifications to ensure this was possible.

 

[aleggatta]

Keeping the 710/1 and /2 the same spec also means you can can borrow units from each side without losing capacity. 710/1s fill in sometimes on the Barking Gospel Oak and 710/2’s show up on the West Anglia although they are not compatible with one another in service.

Are you saying two units of the same class ordered by the same operator are not compatible with each other due to being a different sub class?

 

[87015]

Are you saying two units of the same class ordered by the same operator are not compatible with each other due to being a different sub class?

Yet.

 

[aleggatta]

Yet.

Ah ok! I was under the impression all had been resolved on that front but thanks for clarifying!

 

[20atthemagnet]

Are you saying two units of the same class ordered by the same operator are not compatible with each other due to being a different sub class?

One is dual voltage one is not with different software versions. There won’t be any rush to do so either as there are plenty of units within each sub class to carry out the duties required in most cases. Coupling is only needed *in service* on WA and even if a /2 is booked on WA duties it’s easy to diagram jobs to keep them together.

The focus is very much streamlining what is already there as opposed to adding new functionality, and so far to be fair its being going very well. They’ve settled down into being excellent units. Very rarely put a foot wrong.

 

[Paul Jones 88]

They are nice trains right enough, however, I do miss the declassified 2+1 first class seat going to Enfield and Chingford. (317/7).