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Class 710 LO Diagrams

LT3001

Member
Joined
31 Jan 2015
Messages
55
Hello all

Was wondering if anyone out there may be able to provide Class 710 diagrams for all London overground lines?

I’m planning to try to get as many diagrams covered in a day to put as many red lines in the book as possible.

If I end up developing a plan for this, I will share it to assist others

Cheers
 
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JonathanH

Veteran Member
Joined
29 May 2011
Messages
23,264
I doubt they are in the public domain. A freedom of information request in 2022 was refused on the basis of security and vandalism. TfL tend to repeat that whenever anyone makes a further request.

Clearly they can be backed out by using platform matching on RTT and observations. Maybe someone has done this.

They aren't really that difficult to track in any case, with one on Romford to Upminster, seven on Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside, a number working alongside 378s on Euston to Watford services as part of the eight workings there, and the interworking on Enfield Town / Cheshunt / Chingford. The only real complication is the way that they split and rejoin at Chingford outside peak hours, and appearances on the North London Line. Some will be on depots.

There is some information about the North London Line services here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-710s-on-the-mildmay-line.293013/ and some other interesting information here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/clapham-junction-spotting-advice.281145/#post-7148288.

LTP unit diagrams
Request ID: FOI-1998-2223
Date published: 09 December 2022

You asked
Dear Transport for London, Please may I have a copy of all of the current LTP unit diagrams for SX/SO/SU for Arriva Rail London (London Overground) and MTR Crossrail (Elizabeth Line) commencing on 11th December 2022.

We answered
TfL Ref: 1998-2223

Thank you for your request received by us on 15 November 2022 asking for information about the new LTP unit diagrams effective from 11 December 2022.

Your request has been considered in accordance with the requirements of the Freedom of Information Act and our information access policy. You asked for: a copy of all of the current LTP unit diagrams for SX/SO/SU for Arriva Rail London (London Overground) and MTR Crossrail (Elizabeth Line) commencing on 11th December 2022.

I can confirm that we hold the information you require. However, we have concluded that some of the information contained within the documents is exempt from release under sections 38 (Health and Safety) and 43 (Commercial Interests) of the FOI Act. In both cases, TfL considers that the release of this information would be likely to cause the prejudice or harm indicated by the exemptions, by encouraging vandals to target specific parts of the network. Our approach to the disclosure of this information has recently changed following a security review.

TfL rolling stock including those operated by other Train Operating Companies as concessions such as Arriva Rail London who operate our London Overground services and MTR who operate the Elizabeth line, are a consistently attractive target for graffiti. There is a growing culture, fuelled by social media, which encourages graffiti on TfL trains.

The LTP unit diagrams requested contain information on various pages on start of day and end of day locations where trains may be stabled overnight or be potentially unsupervised for long periods of time, along with empty coaching stock moves and day time stabling locations which could not be identified from a public published timetable. The disclosure of this information would enable a reasonable individual to work out when a lone member of staff or driver may be at a particular time, thereby making them vulnerable to attack, stalking, or impersonation which would threaten their personal safety and the delivery of services. They effectively highlight the movements of both a train and / or an individual operating in an isolated environment.

This information if it became public would make the train stock vulnerable to graffiti attacks by identifying locations to target the units, which in turn increases the risk to the health and safety of both perpetrators and staff - perpetrators are likely to be trespassing into what are inherently dangerous areas and TfL employees and other professionals (such as the police) have to deal with the consequences of vandalism and graffiti – either at the time it is being committed or in dealing with the subsequent consequences. Staff and drivers also have a right to be able to carry out their jobs safely and without threat. There is also the effect of increasing the financial burden on TfL in deterring and dealing with the effects of vandalism/graffiti.

Arriva Rail London (ARL) have confirmed that they have in the past had to amend their timetables as graffiti attackers found locations where rains were reversed or paused in the unit diagrams and caused costly damage to trains.

The use of this exemption in relation to similar information was considered by the Information Commissioner in Decision Notice FS50607218, which was issued on 17 March 2016. The Commissioner upheld both the application of the exemption and the balance of the public interest. We consider the same arguments apply to your request. The Decision Notice can be viewed here: https://ico.org.uk/media/action-weve-taken/decision-notices/2016/1623759/fs50607218.pdf

Whilst we make no suggestion that you would use this information for anything other than you own personal interest, disclosure of this information to you has to be regarded as a disclosure to ‘the public at large’, especially as this response will be available publicly on our website as we publish responses to requests in line with our transparency policy.

In relation to the section 43 exemption, there is a direct financial cost to TfL and ARL / MTR as concessions in dealing with vandalism and graffiti, both in terms of protecting the network from such crime and in dealing with the consequences when it does occur – which is not just in terms of cleaning, repair and maintenance, but also the subsequent disruption it causes to the network such as having to take trains out of service or having to shut down power and suspend services. This not only leads to significant delays and inconvenience for our customers, but also has direct financial consequences for TfL such as increased passenger claims for delay compensation. It is difficult to quantify the exact costs to TfL in dealing with graffiti and vandalism, but we estimate that it is measured in millions of pounds per year – for example, see this release from the British Transport Police which cites a figure of £10million per annum:


The use of this exemption is subject to an assessment of the public interest in relation to the disclosure of the information concerned. TfL recognises the need for openness and transparency by public authorities, but in this instance the public interest in applying the exemption, in order to minimise risks to operational resilience, safe operation of the network, the welfare of staff and members of the general public, outweighs the public interest in disclosure.

We are aware that we have previously disclosed similar information when answering previous FOI requests however we have since reviewed this decision and now consider that the above exemptions apply to the information being requested.

If you are not satisfied with this response please see the attached information sheet for details of your right to appeal.

Yours sincerely


Sara Thomas
FOI Case Officer
FOI Case Management Team
General Counsel
Transport for London
 
Last edited:

JCO1406

Member
Joined
28 May 2024
Messages
177
Location
London
a number working alongside 378s on Euston to Watford services
I didn’t realise that the Euston-Watford services still had 378s running on it, I thought it was just 710s now.

Weaver, Liberty and Suffeagette line is all 710, thought the Lioness was fully 710s, and I’ve seen some appear on the Mildmay line.

I think more 710s are planned to operate the Mildmay line to allow for more 378s to transfer over to the Windrush line for the frequency boost as 710s cant operate in the tunnels.
 

astock5000

Member
Joined
16 Aug 2010
Messages
111
Location
Garston, Hertfordshire
I didn’t realise that the Euston-Watford services still had 378s running on it, I thought it was just 710s now.
378s are relatively uncommon on the line now but they do work it on occasions. I travelled on one on the 07:45 Watford - Euston on Sunday 19th (a day when the Mildmay line was closed between Richmond and Willesden, which may have had an effect on such an allocation?)
 

iamraymond

Member
Joined
10 Nov 2025
Messages
99
Location
Bristol
I didn’t realise that the Euston-Watford services still had 378s running on it, I thought it was just 710s now.

Weaver, Liberty and Suffeagette line is all 710, thought the Lioness was fully 710s, and I’ve seen some appear on the Mildmay line.

I think more 710s are planned to operate the Mildmay line to allow for more 378s to transfer over to the Windrush line for the frequency boost as 710s cant operate in the tunnels.
Out of interest, what's the tunnel issue with the 710s?
 

LT3001

Member
Joined
31 Jan 2015
Messages
55
I doubt they are in the public domain. A freedom of information request in 2022 was refused on the basis of security and vandalism. TfL tend to repeat that whenever anyone makes a further request.

Clearly they can be backed out by using platform matching on RTT and observations. Maybe someone has done this.

They aren't really that difficult to track in any case, with one on Romford to Upminster, seven on Gospel Oak to Barking Riverside, a number working alongside 378s on Euston to Watford services as part of the eight workings there, and the interworking on Enfield Town / Cheshunt / Chingford. The only real complication is the way that they split and rejoin at Chingford outside peak hours, and appearances on the North London Line. Some will be on depots.

There is some information about the North London Line services here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/class-710s-on-the-mildmay-line.293013/ and some other interesting information here https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/clapham-junction-spotting-advice.281145/#post-7148288.

Yeah I know, i thought I'd try my luck by asking them again, or even asking here just incase someone somewhere might have a copy or an idea of them! Nevermind but thank you for your help in any case!
 

Kite159

Veteran Member
Joined
27 Jan 2014
Messages
22,714
Location
West of Andover
Just seen a 710/2 arriving into Clapham Junction on what I presume is the 2Y56 0623 Stratford (London) to Clapham Junction.
Although I suspect that is covering for an absent 378.
 

Krystal

Member
Joined
12 Aug 2025
Messages
117
Location
Suburbia London
Just seen a 710/2 arriving into Clapham Junction on what I presume is the 2Y56 0623 Stratford (London) to Clapham Junction.
Although I suspect that is covering for an absent 378.
710s don’t usually run to Clapham, let alone a four car one. This service is indeed usually run with a 378 with the 710 being subbed in.
 

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