Class 707 to Southeastern Dates

[Horizon22]

You do not know yet that GBR will be going nationwide blue. Unless you know something we don’t, of course!

I more meant there's no point doing another change during this OLR time, to then presumably change again to whatever GBR branding will end up being!

 

[brad465]

So are Southeastern planning to use the 707s on some of their Gillingham services?

That would be a tall order without toilets. It just so happens the depot there has Metro fleet space. Given 376s go to Ramsgate for maintenance, 707s going to Gillingham despite being out of passenger service range would not be the most extreme distance example.

 

[alf]

Are the 707’s bodyside cameras being used for release & shut doors or ar south eastern drivers pulling up at the existing platform monitors & mirrors?

I was told (before the 707 was invented) that south eastern DOO drivers did not want to use cab monitors.

 

[CFRAIL]

So are Southeastern planning to use the 707s on some of their Gillingham services?

No, but their drivers work some metro diagrams.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2021 ==

Are the 707’s bodyside cameras being used for release & shut doors or ar south eastern drivers pulling up at the existing platform monitors & mirrors?

I was told (before the 707 was invented) that south eastern DOO drivers did not want to use cab monitors.

At stations which don't have dispatch staff, the in cab monitors will be used.

 

[Doomotron]

Hopefully the 707s will stay in the nice state they're in now. I doubt it though...

 

[GEC465]

There were plans to do the 465s into SE blue aswell from internal sources but not sure if it's going ahead now

You do not know yet that GBR will be going nationwide blue. Unless you know something we don’t, of course!

 

[Aictos]

No, but their drivers work some metro diagrams.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 30 Sep 2021 ==


At stations which don't have dispatch staff, the in cab monitors will be used.

Fair enough, however why don't they use the in cab monitors at all stations the Class 707 is calling at?

I ask this because the Luton to Rainham service which calls pretty much everywhere from London Bridge to Rainham with the exception of three SE stations use the in cab monitors and the Class 700 is of the same family type that the Class 707s are.

On the Thameslink network, staff who used to dispatch now deal with crowd control and make announcements telling passengers to stand back when the train is about to move so why at manned stations of SouthEastern can't the platform staff leave the dispatch of the Class 707s to the driver on the DOO services and simply do more customer service, accessible requests etc?

I'm not stating that SE should get rid of all platform dispatchers, just keep them for the trains that don't have body side cameras, besides when the said cameras are faulty on the TL, they can only call at manned stations.

SE drivers are used to driving the 700s which were fully self dispatched and while I know it's been a while since a SE driver has driven a Class 700, they must be familiar with the setup and thus it can't be that difficult to move the dispatch of the 707s to having the driver have full control over the dispatch process.

 

[Goldfish62]

Fair enough, however why don't they use the in cab monitors at all stations the Class 707 is calling at?

I ask this because the Luton to Rainham service which calls pretty much everywhere from London Bridge to Rainham with the exception of three SE stations use the in cab monitors and the Class 700 is of the same family type that the Class 707s are.

On the Thameslink network, staff who used to dispatch now deal with crowd control and make announcements telling passengers to stand back when the train is about to move so why at manned stations of SouthEastern can't the platform staff leave the dispatch of the Class 707s to the driver on the DOO services and simply do more customer service, accessible requests etc?

I'm not stating that SE should get rid of all platform dispatchers, just keep them for the trains that don't have body side cameras, besides when the said cameras are faulty on the TL, they can only call at manned stations.

SE drivers are used to driving the 700s which were fully self dispatched and while I know it's been a while since a SE driver has driven a Class 700, they must be familiar with the setup and thus it can't be that difficult to move the dispatch of the 707s to having the driver have full control over the dispatch process.

That's interesting. So is it the case that at London Bridge for example, the platform staff don't despatch Thameslink services, including giving the CD and RA indications?

 

[ComUtoR]

Yep, London Bridge is DOO for Thameslink. Same with Blackfriars. (At least for 700s)

 

[Peter Sarf]

Fair enough, however why don't they use the in cab monitors at all stations the Class 707 is calling at?

I ask this because the Luton to Rainham service which calls pretty much everywhere from London Bridge to Rainham with the exception of three SE stations use the in cab monitors and the Class 700 is of the same family type that the Class 707s are.

On the Thameslink network, staff who used to dispatch now deal with crowd control and make announcements telling passengers to stand back when the train is about to move so why at manned stations of SouthEastern can't the platform staff leave the dispatch of the Class 707s to the driver on the DOO services and simply do more customer service, accessible requests etc?

I'm not stating that SE should get rid of all platform dispatchers, just keep them for the trains that don't have body side cameras, besides when the said cameras are faulty on the TL, they can only call at manned stations.

SE drivers are used to driving the 700s which were fully self dispatched and while I know it's been a while since a SE driver has driven a Class 700, they must be familiar with the setup and thus it can't be that difficult to move the dispatch of the 707s to having the driver have full control over the dispatch process.

Probably too complicated. I mean the platform staff would need to be prepared for a late substitution of a 707 by a 376 or 465.

That's interesting. So is it the case that at London Bridge for example, the platform staff don't despatch Thameslink services, including giving the CD and RA indications?

Bear in mind that at London Bridge Thameslink use their own dedicated platforms - it is effectively part of the Thameslink core. So no, even rare, mix up possible there - in fact I doubt there are any platform staff ?.

 

[Goldfish62]

Yep, London Bridge is DOO for Thameslink. Same with Blackfriars. (At least for 700s)

Interesting, thanks.

 

[ComUtoR]

Probably too complicated. I mean the platform staff would need to be prepared for a late substitution of a 707 by a 376 or 465

No complications at all tbh and will probably happen in the long term anyway.

 

[jon0844]

Hopefully because there are less calling points on their routes compared to 700s, the 707s will get to the useful display screens like passenger loading heat maps quicker, something that's a problem using 700s on their Rainham route and I imagine through the core as well with short stopping distances (correct me if any of this is wrong).

Subject to DfT approval, the 700s should get a PIS upgrade at some point to add new functionality and fix bugs (something that was hoped for some time ago, before Covid). I don't know if this will then be offered to other users of the same system.

 

[Goldfish62]

No complications at all tbh and will probably happen in the long term anyway.

Indeed. In the days of Southern having a mix of DOO and guard closing the doors SWT staff (who of course would be used to a single despatch method for their own services) on P12 at Clapham Junction would regularly handle a mix of despatching methods with trains regularly being out of sequence.

 

[Aictos]

Indeed. In the days of Southern having a mix of DOO and guard closing the doors SWT staff (who of course would be used to a single despatch method for their own services) on P12 at Clapham Junction would regularly handle a mix of despatching methods with trains regularly being out of sequence.

Hence why I don't see a problem with the Class 707s being fully DOO, as a example Thameslink staff since start of the full operations by Class 700s at Midland Mainline stations as a example don't do any dispatch except making announcements that the train is ready to leave as it's either full DOO or its Driver/Guard.

The only exception is if a EMR formed of a longer formation then 7 coaches of a Class 222 operated service then it's dispatched by platform staff, the Class 360 in a 8 car formation is dispatched using driver/guard.

I'm not pushing for DOO nor am I discussing the benefits and disbenefits of DOO but as there already exists a method of dispatch on part of the SE network using the same family class abit a different design and one that SE drivers were used to, I can't see why they can't use the on train equipment to dispatch themselves.

 

[Class 466]

707 diagrams for this week:
SG703/704:

5N85 06+27 Grove Park Down CHS to Slade Green
2B85 0709 Slade Green to Cannon Street
2T41 0816 Cannon Street to Cannon Street
Berths at Cannon Street until:
2T69 1517 Cannon Street to Cannon Street
2T77 1715 Cannon Street to Cannon Street
2T85 1915 Cannon Street to Cannon Street
5E85 21+00 Cannon Street to Slade Green T&R.S.M.D

SG705/706:

5D05 05+15 Slade Green T&R.S.M.D to Crayford
2D05 0531 Crayford to London Cannon Street
2S11 0620 London Cannon Street to Orpington
2F13 0711 Orpington to London Cannon Street
2V09 0757 London Cannon Street to Hayes (Kent)
2K19 0845 Hayes (Kent) to London Cannon Street
2I23 0938 London Cannon Street to London Cannon Street
2S31 1120 London Cannon Street to Orpington
2F33 1211 Orpington to London Cannon Street
2V29 1257 London Cannon Street to Hayes (Kent)
2K39 1345 Hayes (Kent) to London Cannon Street
2I43 1438 London Cannon Street to London Cannon Street
2S51 1620 London Cannon Street to Orpington
2F53 1711 Orpington to London Cannon Street
2V49 1757 London Cannon Street to Hayes (Kent)
2K59 1845 Hayes (Kent) to London Cannon Street
2I67 1938 London Cannon Street to London Cannon Street
2S75 2120 London Cannon Street to Orpington
2F77 2211 Orpington to London Cannon Street
2V69 2257 London Cannon Street to Hayes (Kent)
2K79 2345 Hayes (Kent) to Lewisham
5K80 00+14 Lewisham to Grove Park Down C.H.S.

SG707/708:

5D82 06+10 Slade Green T&R.S.M.D to Crayford
2D82 0619 Crayford to Charing X
2L14 0712 Charing X to Dartford
2A18 0811 Dartford to Charing X
2N38 0918 Charing X to Gravesend
2D48 1048 Gravesend to Charing X
2L34 1212 Charing X to Dartford
2A38 1311 Dartford to Charing X
2N76 1418 Charing X to Gravesend
2D88 1548 Gravesend to Charing X
2N12 1702 Charing X to Gravesend
2D20 1818 Gravesend to Charing X
1N70 1932 Charing X to Dartford
5A70 20+19 Dartford to Slade Green T&R.S.M.D

 

[brad465]

707 diagrams for this week:
....

SG707/708:

5D82 06+10 Slade Green T&R.S.M.D to Crayford
2D82 0619 Crayford to Charing X
2L14 0712 Charing X to Dartford
2A18 0811 Dartford to Charing X
2N38 0918 Charing X to Gravesend
2D48 1048 Gravesend to Charing X
2L34 1212 Charing X to Dartford
2A38 1311 Dartford to Charing X
2N76 1418 Charing X to Gravesend
2D88 1548 Gravesend to Charing X
2N12 1702 Charing X to Gravesend
2D20 1818 Gravesend to Charing X
1N70 1932 Charing X to Dartford
5A70 20+19 Dartford to Slade Green T&R.S.M.D

Is this their first passenger workings into Charing X and Gravesend? (Also proving Southeastern got their map wrong not including Gravesend on it)

 

[Class 466]

Is this their first passenger workings into Charing X and Gravesend? (Also proving Southeastern got their map wrong not including Gravesend on it)

It is indeed, and also 707025/026s first day in service on SG705/706

 

[bb21]

I expect that’ll be with 707027 if the whole numerical pairs thing carries on.

27+28 should be the next pair, then 29+01, then 13+02 as originally planned.

Note this is only a plan and things can obviously change as the plan is very behind.

 

[FOH]

Saw my first set in service this morning. One thing that I hadn't realised was they are clearly liveried as "Citybeam" on the vinyl paintwork similarly to "Javelin".

 

[The_Train]

It is indeed, and also 707025/026s first day in service on SG705/706

Are 025 and 026 in the SE blue colour's now or just a rebranded SWT red?

 

[ComUtoR]

27+28 should be the next pair,

They are already home

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Oct 2021 ==

Are 025 and 026 in the SE blue colour's now or just a rebranded SWT red?

SE Blue.

 

[bb21]

They are already home

I've been off work recently and have only arrived back from Mars

 

[MotCO]

I've been off work recently and have only arrived back from Mars

Was that on a Moonbeam, the intergalatic version of the Citybeam?

 

[ComUtoR]

I've been off work recently and have only arrived back from Mars

Was that on a Moonbeam, the intergalatic version of the Citybeam?

[BRUCE WILLIS] Would you like to swing on a star, carry Moonbeams home in a jar, and be better off than you are, or would you rather be a train.... [/BRUCE WILLIS]

They slipped under the radar. I didn't see the move uploaded into TRUST as it came a weird way home. I think the delays have been resolved and they should start coming thick and fast.

 

[The_Train]

They are already home

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 4 Oct 2021 ==


SE Blue.

Thanks for that!
So if my info is correct this is how things stand with the 707's in SE's hands:

In SE Blue & in service
707009-707012
707025-707026

In SWT Red & not yet entered service
707003-707008
707027-707028

All other units remain with SWR for now!

 

[Mikey C]

The use of regular Networkers, 465/9s and 376s has always seemed pretty random to me, so it'll be interesting if the 707s stick to certain routes or not

 

[theageofthetra]

There were plans to do the 465s into SE blue aswell from internal sources but not sure if it's going ahead now

Which will make them even hotter with no aircon.

 

[brad465]

The use of regular Networkers, 465/9s and 376s has always seemed pretty random to me, so it'll be interesting if the 707s stick to certain routes or not

Probably because of the logistical mess that seems to be having so many different metro fleets/sub-fleets. If anything 707s arriving has probably messed that up even more. Given the similar properties 707s have to 376s, it would make sense to have dedicated services/routes for these two groups, then Networkers do the remainder, but I'm sure there's more to it than that in reality.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

The use of regular Networkers, 465/9s and 376s has always seemed pretty random to me, so it'll be interesting if the 707s stick to certain routes or not

Unsure if it’s just coincidence but certainly pre-COVID on the Metro routes off peak, I noticed that the 376s would be concentrated far more on Cannon Street services, with only a couple out of Charing Cross and the rest Networkers