Chiltern006
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why is it being dragged when it can just run on third rail? signalling issue maybe?
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Class 707 to Southeastern Dates
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Route knowledge / Not cleared for the route etc. There can be a variety of reasons, but those two are probably the most likely.
py_megapixel
Established Member
Often when this kind of thing happens it's because there are no drivers that sign both the traction and the route. There is no reason why a South Western driver would sign all the way over to the Lewisham area. Conversely, the drivers who do sign the appropriate route probably won't sign the 707s.
Fincra5
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Simpler than training up a FOC Driver on the traction for 1 move..
Chiltern006
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fair points, thanks all
BluePenguin
On Moderation
Then clear it for the route and get someone who does have route knowledge to drive it with out without supervision instead of dragging it? Where there is a will there is a way. We must reduce the use of diesel where we can by keeping it to a minimum. This is one of those specific cases which needs looking at. Back in 2017 the 375s ran into Waterloo for the first time and this is simply the opposite with 707s.
There is always more to what is assumed. There was infinite will, just no way.
BluePenguin
On Moderation
Of course
Also worth noting, that for the other 28 transferring, they may not be dragged! Get a pair over and training can begin, which means there may be room in the schedules to facilitate a non-drag transfer. Could there also be a (admittedly paperwork) sign off required for initial clearance to run ECS moves for the transfer?
theageofthetra
Established Member
Surely it was diesel hauled because there is no room in the electrified sidings, and allows temp storage on the freight roads?
More than likely is down to operational convenience, it may be possible after huge sums of money are thrown at the problem, but it would be difficult enough without COVID.
I saw mention of Waterloo and 375s. That was in no way the same. A small pool of driver managers and high grade driver learnt the two miles or so from Voltaire junction/international flyover to Waterloo international for a service lasted several days.
Best case scenario would be the 707s were left at Clapham Yard, South Eastern would have to learn from Clapham yard (SWR), round Latchmere and come out at Wandsworth Road, plus a full traction course. The alternative would be SWR drivers learning from Clapham Yard the whole way to SE’s depot.
I saw mention of Waterloo and 375s. That was in no way the same. A small pool of driver managers and high grade driver learnt the two miles or so from Voltaire junction/international flyover to Waterloo international for a service lasted several days.
Best case scenario would be the 707s were left at Clapham Yard, South Eastern would have to learn from Clapham yard (SWR), round Latchmere and come out at Wandsworth Road, plus a full traction course. The alternative would be SWR drivers learning from Clapham Yard the whole way to SE’s depot.
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Just to add what others have said, is you're taking productive drivers off the job for road learning something that will be useless once all the trains are all over, ROG etc have the market for that kind of business these days.
Two fewer cabs, five fewer gangways, and expanded floor areas for standing (around doors and between 2+2 seating rather than 2+3).
Weirdly the DfT stated in 2017 a 10 car 376 has lower capacity than 10 car 465/465+466 including standees.
Wiki shows a 12 car 465 would be 1,410 capacity verses 1,190 for a 10 car 707.
707 therefore not really more than stopgap for 12 car trains when demand returns
Wiki shows a 12 car 465 would be 1,410 capacity verses 1,190 for a 10 car 707.
707 therefore not really more than stopgap for 12 car trains when demand returns
Similar passenger numbers when you account for being only 10 cars.
What’s stopping the train from being hooked onto a few delivery carriages and delivered to the SE yard by a freight loco? Surely some freight company that runs services through part of the route near the SE route to Clapham could potentially do the job?
Thats exactly what ROG specialise in doing.
Isn't there a means of dragging them with a class 73, (if it still had full ED functions, it could even park the stock on non powered freight stabling tracks)?
That’s because DfT used to allow a higher rate of standing on SWR suburban services.
Mikey C
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I don't think the 376s are particularly space efficient. More standing room by the doors and much faster entrance/exit, but the legroom seems very generous for short distance routes, and they have a poorly designed "cycle/wheelchair" space with not enough handrails, so far fewer people can use it than should be the case
But then the 707s have some odd features too, what's the point of this 2 + 1 section with no extra handrails?
Yes SWR ASLEF drivers have been advised no cab sharing unless trainee/instructor type set up.
a 73 would need an adapter to Dellner so would be unbraked, 5mph max speed.
personally even though I get the argument about carbon release etc, there is much more if an issue with some of the weird and wonderful freight routes, as well as 37s regularly being used on 3rd rail test trains.
Is it not possible that a former South East driver may have transferred to South West and drives 707s? This might mean just a quick route refresh (is that possible?)
Not currently possible.
CBlue
Member
And what do you do if that sole driver cannot work the days required for whatever reason?
Penny wise and pound foolish springs to mind, the way minutiae has been focused on for a simple stock move.
BluePenguin
On Moderation
Please elaborate more on the reasons why not?
D365
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That’s the way it seems to go on this forum sometimes. Look at the vitriol that moving 314209 by road caused, despite it now being an orphan unit.
py_megapixel
Established Member
My assumption would simply be that nobody is in the very specific situation of being a Southeastern driver who signed the eastern section of the route from wherever they are now to Grove Park, and also who has recently transferred to South Western and has been trained on 707s and the western section of the aforementioned route.... that's a very specific set of requirements!
All of these suggestions seem ridiculously overcomplicated to me anyway. It's only a few miles - to me, it seems it would probably be simpler and easier for them just to, y'know, pay to have a locomotive drag it...
All of these suggestions seem ridiculously overcomplicated to me anyway. It's only a few miles - to me, it seems it would probably be simpler and easier for them just to, y'know, pay to have a locomotive drag it...
or take it by road
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