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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

Snow1964

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Also 701021 & 701027 are not in passenger service this morning although 701021 did work after midnight last night

I make it 51 701s in passenger service this morning. The two outstanding diagrams are 2*450 (2H87 & 2J10), both of which are shown as 8v10 on journeycheck.
2 diagrams being covered again, and looking back over similar posts each weekday morning last week, it seems 2 or 3 diagrams needing to be covered has become a new norm.

I wonder what plan to fix this is, seems that getting enough serviceable trains for the diagrams is currently beyond the capacity of the servicing depots, either they need to become better (faster) at fixing them or they need to cut the diagrams to match the realistic number that can be available

I understand that the diagrams create a target, but if it is consistently not achieved, should that scheduled number of diagrams remain unchanged ?
 
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Peter Sarf

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2 diagrams being covered again, and looking back over similar posts each weekday morning last week, it seems 2 or 3 diagrams needing to be covered has become a new norm.

I wonder what plan to fix this is, seems that getting enough serviceable trains for the diagrams is currently beyond the capacity of the servicing depots, either they need to become better (faster) at fixing them or they need to cut the diagrams to match the realistic number that can be available

I understand that the diagrams create a target, but if it is consistently not achieved, should that scheduled number of diagrams remain unchanged ?
I wonder if the diagrams are not being met due to problems handling the 10car units - 8car depot/siding space in the required location(s) won't work.

Perhaps pairs of 5car 701s are needed for all the current planned diagrams to work ?.
(goodness knows how much joining and splitting SWR is heading for pre morning peak and post evening peak).

I also think the fitter learning curve might still be being climbed.
Very tempting to think that getting shot of the 458/4s would simplify things. But then do these need to be kept warm and healthy until hand-back (due next year ?).

I still marvel at how 25 x 5car 701/5s can be accommodated without having to be used !.
 

Siemens Staines

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I make it 52 701s in passenger service this morning. The outstanding diagram is 2*450 (2K01) which is shown as 8v10 on journeycheck.
 

Peter Sarf

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Any news on when the remaining 5 701/5s will be redelivered from Derby?
I suspect SWR must be creaking at the seams so only after the 458/4s have gone off to pastures new (storage outside SWR) will the last five 701/5s arrive. After all SWR has not got any of the first 25 701/5s into service yet. That is a very high number of units already on SWR to deal with first.
 

Zeremony

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Post from Jan 2024:
I like that it still says TfL Rail not the Elizabeth line

Also why is the Overground in the SWR font rather than Johnston

View attachment 151357
I had a rare ride on a 701 today and I noticed that TfL Rail still lives on the displays. I can't believe this hasn't been updated yet!

I also noted that the Overground lines haven't been added.
 

Goldfish62

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Post from Jan 2024:

I had a rare ride on a 701 today and I noticed that TfL Rail still lives on the displays. I can't believe this hasn't been updated yet!

I also noted that the Overground lines haven't been added.
Good old SWR - always a little bit behind the times.
 

wickham

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Post from Jan 2024:

I had a rare ride on a 701 today and I noticed that TfL Rail still lives on the displays. I can't believe this hasn't been updated yet!

I also noted that the Overground lines haven't been added.
Yes, I have noticed this too - I wonder what the average member of the public will make of it - I doubt your average traveller would associate "TFL Rail" with the Elezabeth line, assuming that is what is being referred to ?
 

Goldfish62

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Yes, I have noticed this too - I wonder what the average member of the public will make of it - I doubt your average traveller would associate "TFL Rail" with the Elezabeth line, assuming that is what is being referred to ?
Yes, that's what is being referred to. The temporary TfL Rail name was abolished over four years ago when the Crossrail central operating section was opened, but I wouldn't expect SWR to have quite caught up with that yet...
 

norbitonflyer

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Given that TfL Rail/ Crossrail/ Elizabeth Line has only one interchange witha route operated by 701s, this is not a major issue.

(I cannot think of many journeys one would make from an SWR station to central London that would be likely to involve the Eliz Line - one can get from Waterloo to Paddington, Bond Street, or Tottenham Court Road direct from Waterloo, for Liverpool Street the most direct route is via Bank.

Farringdon possibly
 

Goldfish62

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Given that TfL Rail/ Crossrail/ Elizabeth Line has only one interchange witha route operated by 701s, this is not a major issue.

(I cannot think of many journeys one would make from an SWR station to central London that would be likely to involve the Eliz Line - one can get from Waterloo to Paddington, Bond Street, or Tottenham Court Road direct from Waterloo, for Liverpool Street the most direct route is via Bank.

Farringdon possibly
But it would be sensible to actually call the line by its correct name.
 

Krystal

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Similarly, the PIS on the 701s at Richmond announce the following interchanges: District line, London Overground and London Underground. I'll let y'all figure out what's so wrong about that.
 

Goldfish62

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Similarly, the PIS on the 701s at Richmond announce the following interchanges: District line, London Overground and London Underground. I'll let y'all figure out what's so wrong about that.
Well indeed. On the 450s it announces Mildmay line.
 

DelW

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Similarly, the PIS on the 701s at Richmond announce the following interchanges: District line, London Overground and London Underground. I'll let y'all figure out what's so wrong about that.

Well indeed. On the 450s it announces Mildmay line.

Plus, London Underground and District Line are one and the same thing at Richmond - there isn't another Underground line there.
 

Stephen42

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I wonder if the diagrams are not being met due to problems handling the 10car units - 8car depot/siding space in the required location(s) won't work.

Perhaps pairs of 5car 701s are needed for all the current planned diagrams to work ?.
(goodness knows how much joining and splitting SWR is heading for pre morning peak and post evening peak).
The units not in service from past allocations are either at Wimbledon or Clapham. None look to have broken in service or been out of service for more than a week. A continued maintenance backlog perhaps, with the false dawn for 701029 the other units would be worked harder and come up to exams quicker with less spare units to be on maintenance.

Some units have sat at Clapham for a bit which seems unusual. Could some be used for other purposes on rotation in which case the target is more challenging than it looks.

5 cars wouldn't really help 10 car maintenance, Wimbledon would see the units less frequently as more paths would be taken up by 5 car units (even with some additional ones at 5-car, though not sure it's necessary in the current weekday timetable). What it would allow is a lower availability target in current timetable, only needing 84% of vehicles in traffic each weekday rather than 88% now.
I also think the fitter learning curve might still be being climbed.
Very tempting to think that getting shot of the 458/4s would simplify things. But then do these need to be kept warm and healthy until hand-back (due next year ?).
Reliability is still a focus for the 701s, as much improving the units than just the people getting more used to them. Longer term SWR have recently put out a tender for the next design phase of Wimbledon depot enhancements, that will take years to see any benefits if it happens.

The performance strategy published earlier this year quoted 51 diagrams to avoid reliance on the 458/4s, either 450 availability is slightly worse or more have been shifted onto longer distance work than the plan assumed.
I still marvel at how 25 x 5car 701/5s can be accommodated without having to be used !.
Theoretically there was a plan for all 30 x 5cars and the 458/4s SWR currently have to be in active service. How painful that plan would have been is a separate question. Strawberry Hill taking some of the 458/4s will free up more space and the few 701s not on SWR metals will also help.
 

swr444

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Similarly, the PIS on the 701s at Richmond announce the following interchanges: District line, London Overground and London Underground. I'll let y'all figure out what's so wrong about that.
This used to be announced on the Desiros (450s) as well. It was obviously a script error which then was uploaded onto the 701 PIS. Similarly they still announce the "Croydon Tramlink" whereeas the Desiros now say "London Trams".
 

lookapigeon

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This used to be announced on the Desiros (450s) as well. It was obviously a script error which then was uploaded onto the 701 PIS. Similarly they still announce the "Croydon Tramlink" whereeas the Desiros now say "London Trams".
The one that always grates on me like nails down a blackboard is the one on the Hampton Court train that says that oyster, contactless and freedom passes are not valid past Surbiton yet Thames Ditton/Hampton Court are in Z6.
 

swr444

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The one that always grates on me like nails down a blackboard is the one on the Hampton Court train that says that oyster, contactless and freedom passes are not valid past Surbiton yet Thames Ditton/Hampton Court are in Z6.
Yeah, this has been complained about many times by train crew and still has no been rectified. It's just piss poor from the programmers and the fact they've had so many years to get it right before the trains actually coming into service too.
 

Krystal

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This used to be announced on the Desiros (450s) as well. It was obviously a script error which then was uploaded onto the 701 PIS.
I'm assuming that's why the displays on the side of the train say Lon W'loo, as that's what it says on the Desiro front? Because I recall during testing it could handle the full name 'London Waterloo' just fine and no one batted an eyelid.
 

Bald Rick

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I'm assuming that's why the displays on the side of the train say Lon W'loo, as that's what it says on the Desiro front? Because I recall during testing it could handle the full name 'London Waterloo' just fine and no one batted an eyelid.

That is being sorted.
 

swr444

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It reminds me of when they got Sarah Parnell to re-record the Waterloo & City line announcement for the approach to Waterloo a few years ago, and she announced "International rail services"....
 

Siemens Staines

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I make it 52 701s in passenger service this morning. One diagram is cancelled (2G08) and one diagram is 2*450 vice 701 (2C07) but one 701 is vice 2*458/4 (2C09)
 

Siemens Staines

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2G08 was cancelled due to not having a driver allocated

I guess this diagram would have been 701035 had there been a driver, and there would have been 53 in service this morning for only the second time. Perhaps it will appear later in the day. As it is 2M07/2M14 were also cancelled and 2G15 looks to be 701033 off 2J16
 

nctd2306

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I make it 52 701s in passenger service this morning. One diagram is cancelled (2G08) and one diagram is 2*450 vice 701 (2C07) but one 701 is vice 2*458/4 (2C09)
I've just seen 701009 at Clapham with the "This train is on test Banners" banners in all the door ways. This must be crew training surely given 009 has been in passenger service for months now. It's not allocated to anything on RTT but definitely had staff members onboard doing things.
 

wickham

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The one that always grates on me like nails down a blackboard is the one on the Hampton Court train that says that oyster, contactless and freedom passes are not valid past Surbiton yet Thames Ditton/Hampton Court are in Z6.
The thing that gets me about this announcement on the main line trains at Surbition is the actual wording "Oyster Cards and Contactless Payment without a suitable extension are not valid beyond the NEXT station", usually triggered as you are running into Surbition. Well, I would understand this as meaning the NEXT station after Surbiton - but of course it dosen't mean that at all - I wonder how many people have got caught by this ?
 

norbitonflyer

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It reminds me of when they got Sarah Parnell to re-record the Waterloo & City line announcement for the approach to Waterloo a few years ago, and she announced "International rail services"....
Well, there are connections at Portsmouth, Southampton and (from Waterloo East) Dover for ferries to France. And Portsmouth, being on an island, is technically overseas.

Reminds me that 4CORs had slip boards (is that what they are called?) saying "Waterloo-Portsmouth-Isle of Wight", giving passengers the impression that there was a train ferry.
 

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