Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Alxxxs]

The toliet saga continues… I am again on a train where both toilets are out. The guard strongly suggests I try to reach SWR on the socials as loads of passengers are complaining and they can’t get through to the management with this issue. He confirmed that they’ve never seen this issue on the older trains.

 

[Kite159]

The toliet saga continues… I am again on a train where both toilets are out. The guard strongly suggests I try to reach SWR on the socials as loads of passengers are complaining and they can’t get through to the management with this issue. He confirmed that they’ve never seen this issue on the older trains.

It wouldn't have been an issue with the older trains...
... They simply didn't have toilets

 

[Bigfoot]

The toliet saga continues… I am again on a train where both toilets are out. The guard strongly suggests I try to reach SWR on the socials as loads of passengers are complaining and they can’t get through to the management with this issue. He confirmed that they’ve never seen this issue on the older trains.

Older trains didn't have any toilets... Tomato/tomato.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

The toliet saga continues

Older suburban trains didn't have toilets in the first place. The guard may have been referring to trains operated by Desiro (450/444) perhaps?

 

[Goldfish62]

Older suburban trains didn't have toilets in the first place. The guard may have been referring to trains operated by Desiro (450/444) perhaps?

450 and 458 I should imagine as they're the trains with loos that the 701s have replaced. The 458s have always had reliability issues with their toilets and latterly SWT (not SWR) seemed to give up altogether with the toilets, it being common to find all four on a 10 coach 458/5 formation locked out of use.

 

[WWTownEnth]

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on the sick list today. Maybe we have 50 701 diagrams out then?

 

[Siemens Staines]

on the sick list today. Maybe we have 50 701 diagrams out then?

I agree, I make it 50 701s in passenger service this morning with the three outstanding diagrams all being 2*458/4 (2U05, 2U07 & 2R05)

 

[WWTownEnth]

It will just be barrier vehicles to move a cl458 to Long Marston on Tuesdays 7Q94 0841 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Long Marston...

Presumably one of the 458/5s?

 

[Nimbus020]

The toliet saga continues… I am again on a train where both toilets are out. The guard strongly suggests I try to reach SWR on the socials as loads of passengers are complaining and they can’t get through to the management with this issue. He confirmed that they’ve never seen this issue on the older trains.

My sympathies - although I did get 701 036 on Saturday early evening for a short ride between Raynes Pk & Malden Manor - I'd just been to the Hand in Hand pub near W'don Common & was bursting for the loo! - luckily, 036's rear toilet was in use, albeit not with the best aroma in the world!

 

[norbitonflyer]

The September issue of Modern Railways, which came out two weeks ago, says that 59 701s were in traffic as that issue went to press. Two weeks later, and still no sign of either of the final two in service.

 

[WWTownEnth]

#

The September issue of Modern Railways, which came out two weeks ago, says that 59 701s were in traffic as that issue went to press. Two weeks later, and still no sign of either of the final two in service.

i gather 028 will remain on training duties until at least the point at which the five car courses start..

029 almost made it into traffic about ten days ago but fell at the final fence. We may see it soon.

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seem to be the cohort of 7 absentees today. That should leave 51 in service, which is something of an improvement.

 

[Siemens Staines]

seem to be the cohort of 7 absentees today. That should leave 51 in service, which is something of an improvement.

I agree, I make it 51 701s in passenger service this morning with the two outstanding diagrams being 2*458/4 (2U07 & 2U10)

 

[WWTownEnth]

I wonder when we will finally get 53 701 diagrams in one day. Hopefully soon. Maybe the maintenance backlog will be caught up now holidays are over. and we should see 029 take a bow soon, too.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2026 ==

Today’s 10 absentees:

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which leaves 48 diagrams

 

[Siemens Staines]

I too make it 48 701s in passenger service this morning with the five outstanding diagrams being three 2*458/4 (2U07, 2U09 & 2U10) and two cancelled (2S10/2V11 & 2J92).

 

[WWTownEnth]

There just doesnt seem to be any progress. The number in actual service is in a permanent range now of 47-51 units every weekday.

Very unsatisfactory that after everything we’ve been through in this rollout we are still having services cancelled almost daily, too, because of rolling stock shortages.

 

[wickham]

There just doesnt seem to be any progress. The number in actual service is in a permanent range now of 47-51 units every weekday.

Very unsatisfactory that after everything we’ve been through in this rollout we are still having services cancelled almost daily, too, because of rolling stock shortages.

Now, if they had bought a complete fleet of 5 car units (like the Greater Anglia order was revised to) would the situation be this bad ?
A fleet of 5 car units would give much more flexibillity - but it is too late now !

 

[class701]

Any other company that ordered a fleet of trains seven+ years ago, would at the very least have bought them into service in parallel. If the 5-car units are still not fit for purpose or faulty in some way they should have been returned years ago.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Now, if they had bought a complete fleet of 5 car units (like the Greater Anglia order was revised to) would the situation be this bad ?
A fleet of 5 car units would give much more flexibillity - but it is too late now !

They'd also have done what Greater Anglia do and churn out 5 car trains on 70% of services

 

[Siemens Staines]

Now, if they had bought a complete fleet of 5 car units (like the Greater Anglia order was revised to) would the situation be this bad ?

Greater Anglia also have the advantage that they only have 105 active passenger diagrams from their fleet of 133 720s, so only require 78.9% availability. SWR are currently aiming for 91.4% availability with 53 from 58 units. When SWR dip down to only 47 in service, that equates to 81.0% availability which is in the same ball park as Greater Anglia plan for. Whether GA are too pessimistic or SWR are too optimistic is a debate for others.

 

[43096]

Greater Anglia also have the advantage that they only have 105 active passenger diagrams from their fleet of 133 720s, so only require 78.9% availability. SWR are currently aiming for 91.4% availability with 53 from 58 units. When SWR dip down to only 47 in service, that equates to 81.0% availability which is in the same ball park as Greater Anglia plan for. Whether GA are too pessimistic or SWR are too optimistic is a debate for others.

81% is poor for a modern EMU. They should be achieving 90%+. WAGN were getting well over 90% from their 365s 25 years ago!

 

[Nimbus020]

Greater Anglia also have the advantage that they only have 105 active passenger diagrams from their fleet of 133 720s, so only require 78.9% availability. SWR are currently aiming for 91.4% availability with 53 from 58 units. When SWR dip down to only 47 in service, that equates to 81.0% availability which is in the same ball park as Greater Anglia plan for. Whether GA are too pessimistic or SWR are too optimistic is a debate for others.

Thanks for this - all really good points - and to add to all this, the railway (on SWR's patch especially) is very different now to what it was 7, 8 and 9 years ago when First Group put the 701s in as part of their franchise bid plus the impact of the pandemic etc.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Whether GA are too pessimistic or SWR are too optimistic is a debate for others

That is one possibility, or a part of. I have in the past banged on about stabling capacity issues for fixed 10 car formations in relation to service provision at the start of each day, specifically at certain locations. Has this point been reached?

I honestly do not know - but, I do have it on very reliable grounds, that there is still an amount of behind the scenes work in progress in relation to the full and final 701 roll out. This may or may not, involve stabling capacity issues, only time will tell.

 

[Farnborough]

Now, if they had bought a complete fleet of 5 car units (like the Greater Anglia order was revised to) would the situation be this bad ?
A fleet of 5 car units would give much more flexibillity - but it is too late now !

Compare with buying a fleet of four-car trains, with the view of running them as twelve-cars... but actually usually running them as eight- or even four-cars Class 450s
Or buying a fleet of five-car trains, with the view of running them as ten-cars... but actually running them as five-car Class 444s

That would never happen, would it?

 

[Siemens Staines]

I make it potentially 49 701s in passenger service this morning with the four outstanding diagrams being three 2*458/4 (2C03, 2U07 & 2U10) and one cancelled (2C07/2C18). However 701058 allocated 2U09/2U16 was also cancelled due to a shortage of train crew, so only 48 have worked so far today.

 

[WWTownEnth]

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are the 9 truants this morning so, yes, 49 diagrams notionally operated by 701s

 

[reddragon]

However, I realise that some Forum members probably think that open wagons with no seats are good enough to carry passengers.

On the Southern yes, but not under OLE

 

[swt_passenger]

Compare with buying a fleet of four-car trains, with the view of running them as twelve-cars... but actually usually running them as eight- or even four-cars Class 450s
Or buying a fleet of five-car trains, with the view of running them as ten-cars... but actually running them as five-car Class 444s

That would never happen, would it?

You probably know fine well that the 444s (and 442s before them) were sized to allow for single portion working west of Bournemouth, and splitting/joining en route eg Poole services splitting into fast and slow halves at Southampton.

There were also numerous routes that would never have needed 12 car 450s, such as Portsmouth to Southampton, Guildford to Ascot, and whole suburban areas with only 8 car platforms. Also, 4 x 20m car units were what the whole DC railway was ordering…

 

[SeaKing]

There are currently ten 701/5s at Farnham:

506/518
507/511
513/523
516/530
521/527

Are these easy to see.

 

[wickham]

Are these easy to see.

The short answer is no !
If you go past in the train you see a lot of roofs as the main line is slightly higher than the sidings. You can see at least the two in the siding next to the main line from the adjacent road, but the undergrowth is bad at this time of year and depending upon how they are parked you can get perhaps two or three numbers from the acess gate near the Wreccelsham end of the adjacent road (past the school). You can also see the front ends of some units from Wrecclesham road which runs past the end of the depot, but again there is difficulty with differences in height, trees, undergrowth and seeing through two horrible fences.
With perseverance and binoculars you can get some numbers, but certainly not all - particularly those at the London end of the formations can not be seen, with the odd exception, all depanding upon exactly how they are parked.

 

[SeaKing]

The short answer is no !
If you go past in the train you see a lot of roofs as the main line is slightly higher than the sidings. You can see at least the two in the siding next to the main line from the adjacent road, but the undergrowth is bad at this time of year and depending upon how they are parked you can get perhaps two or three numbers from the acess gate near the Wreccelsham end of the adjacent road (past the school). You can also see the front ends of some units from Wrecclesham road which runs past the end of the depot, but again there is difficulty with differences in height, trees, undergrowth and seeing through two horrible fences.
With perseverance and binoculars you can get some numbers, but certainly not all - particularly those at the London end of the formations can not be seen, with the odd exception, all depanding upon exactly how they are parked.

Thanks for the reply will wait till they start training etc.