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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

Big Jumby 74

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I do hope the timetable refresh next year can massively reduce the amount of interworking across different routes and try to make as many routes as possible self-contained
That would be everyone's ideal scenario, but having been involved in planning since BR days (now retired thankfully), line of route planning (as it was called) has a far greater cost implication, which is why that concept has, over the years, been given over to a more mixed interworking plan, which makes better overall use of the resources (stock and particularly crews) available from a ££ point of view. To be clear, this was/is (in my time) not something that was solely the preserve of the privatised railway. Think NSE days!

Going forward, those in the hot seats will be juggling a fine line between public financing and service reliability.
 
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swr444

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That would be everyone's ideal scenario, but having been involved in planning since BR days (now retired thankfully), line of route planning (as it was called) has a far greater cost implication, which is why that concept has, over the years, been given over to a more mixed interworking plan, which makes better overall use of the resources (stock and particularly crews) available from a ££ point of view. To be clear, this was/is (in my time) not something that was solely the preserve of the privatised railway. Think NSE days!

Going forward, those in the hot seats will be juggling a fine line between public financing and service reliability.
The main issue is the platform capacity at Waterloo. Especially on the "suburban slow" lines
 

Big Jumby 74

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The main issue is the platform capacity at Waterloo. Especially on the "suburban slow" lines
That comes in to it, for sure. Many years ago there was a draft plan worked up for the main sub side as a result of TfL wanting to cherry pick certain routes, and once those routes had been isolated (on paper) at Waterloo, the usual four platforms that were required for most of the off peak day, the number of platforms required for all main sub trains increased to six, due to the longer turn rounds resulting from keeping stock (trains) on specific routes.

From a crew perspective (AFAIR) the depots that were most involved with the main sub, Waterloo, Wimbledon, Woking, Guildford, Strawberry Hill (and others eg: Staines etc) to a lesser degree, all signed the various routes, so even with a change of timetable that kept stock on specific routes, platforms permitting, you'd still have crews changing trains, primarily at Waterloo, as under the rules for repetitive working there are only so many times any given crew can work over the same route in succession before they have to work to somewhere else. And then there is the issue of all those depots maintaining route knowledge over all routes!

It was always the case at Waterloo that services operating the three groups, Main Sub, Main Line and Windsor, were kept separate from one another stock wise as a general rule, although some interworking was necessary in and around the peak times, due as you rightly say, to platform availability, and the crew diagramming detail is largely governed by the stock working plan.
 

Goldfish62

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The main issue is the platform capacity at Waterloo. Especially on the "suburban slow" lines
Capacity certainly isn't balanced across all the platforms. You can turn up at P20-24 most times of the day and only find one train there, and sometimes even no trains! This is a consequence of the withdrawal of the 4tph Hounslow loop services.
 

Peter Sarf

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Light engine in the system 0V71 10:05 DerbyRTC to Bicester 13:10 on Monday 18/05/2026.
I have been waiting 24 hours to see if there is an onward movement - none yet.
My hunch is ROG will try to get their loco to talk to a couple of 701/5s and then VST/VSTP (Very Short Term Plan) a move later in the week only once successful. So risk there is not much advance notice - which with hindsight is how its been already.

 

Gordonman

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Light engine in the system 0V71 10:05 DerbyRTC to Bicester 13:10 on Monday 18/05/2026.
I have been waiting 24 hours to see if there is an onward movement - none yet.
My hunch is ROG will try to get their loco to talk to a couple of 701/5s and then VST/VSTP (Very Short Term Plan) a move later in the week only once successful. So risk there is not much advance notice - which with hindsight is how its been already.

Probably just a move to get a 'shunting' loco to Bicester.
 

Bobcp

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Light engine in the system 0V71 10:05 DerbyRTC to Bicester 13:10 on Monday 18/05/2026.
I have been waiting 24 hours to see if there is an onward movement - none yet.
My hunch is ROG will try to get their loco to talk to a couple of 701/5s and then VST/VSTP (Very Short Term Plan) a move later in the week only once successful. So risk there is not much advance notice - which with hindsight is how its been already.

Your hunch may well be correct.
With respect to the movement of Class 701/5's off Bicester there have recently been two occasions where normally highly reliable posters, on other enthusiast forums, have posted info., in advance of the trains scheduled departure time, which has later proved to be incorrect.
The first time was a few weeks ago when 701515/516 were stated to be moving to Derby and ultimately the schedule was completely canceled.
The second occasion was last Thursday when it was posted that the units were scheduled to be 701526/530 and turned out to be 701521/527.
The four units involved are still present at Bicester MOD.
This suggests, to me, that there are issues in getting the loco to 'talk' to some of the units.
Hardly surprising when you consider that the delivery dates, to Bicester, for eight of the nine remaining units range between 26/10/23 and 19/04/24 and the units are in open storage.
 

Peter Sarf

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Your hunch may well be correct.
With respect to the movement of Class 701/5's off Bicester there have recently been two occasions where normally highly reliable posters, on other enthusiast forums, have posted info., in advance of the trains scheduled departure time, which has later proved to be incorrect.
The first time was a few weeks ago when 701515/516 were stated to be moving to Derby and ultimately the schedule was completely canceled.
The second occasion was last Thursday when it was posted that the units were scheduled to be 701526/530 and turned out to be 701521/527.
The four units involved are still present at Bicester MOD.
This suggests, to me, that there are issues in getting the loco to 'talk' to some of the units.
Hardly surprising when you consider that the delivery dates, to Bicester, for eight of the nine remaining units range between 26/10/23 and 19/04/24 and the units are in open storage.
Indeed. Longer than two years storage outside is bound to be taking its toll.
I have heard that units were moved regularly but even so. That might have been just Long Marston (it was when I was wringing my hands in concern over the possible well being of the stored 701/0s) and nothing to say how well braked they were for just a wee trip within the storage area.
 

Stephen42

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some new special liveries to be applied??
Seems likely. There's a fair amount of messing about on 22nd May for the 2S33 1222 Waterloo to Weybridge. It spends the previous 2 hours in a platform at Waterloo straight off depot. The train that usually forms it heads off to Clapham Yard instead. My guess it will turn up there.

There's also this path late in the evening the night before from Bournemouth.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q95336/2026-05-21/detailed
Indeed. Longer than two years storage outside is bound to be taking its toll.
I have heard that units were moved regularly but even so. That might have been just Long Marston (it was when I was wringing my hands in concern over the possible well being of the stored 701/0s) and nothing to say how well braked they were for just a wee trip within the storage area.
It's clearly not ideal and won't have done them any good. At the same time, GBRF had more trouble with pairs of 701/5s at Long Marston and units needing multiple attempts to drag don't appear to have been harder to get into service. The switch of operator could have added some teething issues too. Brake issues typically are brakes being not releasing or not being applied as demanded by the loco than brake condition. You are right that slow speed moves within a site can often use loco braking alone.

According to RTT 520 521 and 527 a day after arriving at Wimbledon from Bicester went on to Farnham. They aren't necessarily all in a bad way.
 
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bb21

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002 will be fresh in service this morning 5D89/2D90 having been cleared for service over the weekend.
 

Goldfish62

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Windsor seems to have gone 100% as of this morning.
It's difficult to compare Reading with last week now that services interwork with Weybridge services, however the number of 701s appear to be the same, with an increase in 458s reducing 450s to only appearing every 6-7 hours.
 

Bobcp

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Seems likely. There's a fair amount of messing about on 22nd May for the 2S33 1222 Waterloo to Weybridge. It spends the previous 2 hours in a platform at Waterloo straight off depot. The train that usually forms it heads off to Clapham Yard instead. My guess it will turn up there.

There's also this path late in the evening the night before from Bournemouth.
https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/service/gb-nr:Q95336/2026-05-21/detailed

It's clearly not ideal and won't have done them any good. At the same time, GBRF had more trouble with pairs of 701/5s at Long Marston and units needing multiple attempts to drag don't appear to have been harder to get into service. The switch of operator could have added some teething issues too. Brake issues typically are brakes being not releasing or not being applied as demanded by the loco than brake condition. You are right that slow speed moves within a site can often use loco braking alone.

According to RTT 520 and 527 a day after arriving at Wimbledon from Bicester went on to Farnham. They aren't necessarily all in a bad way.
The units were 521 and 527.
The issues centre around them being able to 'talk' to the drag loco not being able to run independently on third rail.
 

WWTownEnth

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It's difficult to compare Reading with last week now that services interwork with Weybridge services, however the number of 701s appear to be the same, with an increase in 458s reducing 450s to only appearing every 6-7 hours.
Agreed but Reading seems to be net down on peak 701 services as of today.
 

Goldfish62

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Agreed but Reading seems to be net down on peak 701 services as of today.
Just one down that I can see: 1648 from Waterloo is 458 (was 701). AM peak is identical to previous.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

Which is only temporary. I’m hoping the 450s will be fully gone from the 2S/2Cs very soon.
Looking at RTT it's actually 458s that have a slight temporary increase.
 

wickham

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Farnham at 1130 19.05.26: View from road that runs beside the railway and road at bottom end of yard.
701004 right over the back.
701040 next.
701509 coupled to another 701/5 unable to identify due to vegitation.
701527 + 701521 by main line, visible from passing trains.
701521 has two coaches graffittied, which I think may have been done before it went to Bicester, if so it might now be difficult to remove !
I last have a record of 701509 at Strawberry Hill and have no real clue as to what it is coupled to - it was previously with 512, but these were split soon after arrival back on SWR or are they reunited, can anyone say ?
 
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Covshire1

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Farnham at 1130 19.05.26: View from road that runs beside the railway and road at bottom end of yard.
701004 right over the back.
701040 next.
701509 coupled to another 701/5 unable to identify due to vegitation.
701527 + 701521 by main line, visible from passing trains.
701521 has two coaches graffittied, which I think may have been done before it went to Bicester, if so it might now be difficult to remove !
I last have a record of 701509 at Strawberry Hill and have no real clue as to what it is coupled to - it was previously with 512, but these were split soon after arrival back on SWR or are they reunited, can anyone say ?
701509 came in with 701512 so it's probably that one...
 

Stephen42

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The units were 521 and 527.
The issues centre around them being able to 'talk' to the drag loco not being able to run independently on third rail.
Thanks typo on my part.
Farnham at 1130 19.05.26: View from road that runs beside the railway and road at bottom end of yard.
701004 right over the back.
701040 next.
701509 coupled to another 701/5 unable to identify due to vegitation.
701527 + 701521 by main line, visible from passing trains.
701521 has two coaches graffittied, which I think may have been done before it went to Bicester, if so it might now be difficult to remove !
I last have a record of 701509 at Strawberry Hill and have no real clue as to what it is coupled to - it was previously with 512, but these were split soon after arrival back on SWR or are they reunited, can anyone say ?
701521 + 701517 apparently left Farnham for Clapham yesterday night. Didn't think 517 was there, could be a typo for 527 in the allocations data. Another 5Q92 is running tonight from Farnham to Wimbledon without a public allocation.

There are potentially more 701 moves on Thursday. One from Bicester to Derby:

There's a schedule from Eastleigh to Wimbledon Park on Thursday as well. It's GBRF operated though timing load is light for the remaining 701/0 so could be something else:
 

NSEWonderer

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Its interesting to see how taking power wise the 701 units are quite different from. Each other, latest TMS update seems to have traded for most units the starting acceleration for smoother brakes however some units are quite nippy with 006, 009, 011, 019 and 050 being noticeably quick from a standing start.
 

Driver@swt

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Its interesting to see how taking power wise the 701 units are quite different from. Each other, latest TMS update seems to have traded for most units the starting acceleration for smoother brakes however some units are quite nippy with 006, 009, 011, 019 and 050 being noticeably quick from a standing start.
You do realise the TMS software has nothing to do with traction and braking, they have their own software…
 

nctd2306

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Its interesting to see how taking power wise the 701 units are quite different from. Each other, latest TMS update seems to have traded for most units the starting acceleration for smoother brakes however some units are quite nippy with 006, 009, 011, 019 and 050 being noticeably quick from a standing start.
And at the other end of the scale, 030 and 042 seem more sluggish in that regard than most other units (still quicker than a 455 though!)
 

Goldfish62

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And at the other end of the scale, 030 and 042 seem more sluggish in that regard than most other units (still quicker than a 455 though!)
Surely they should all have exactly the same performance and the only variation being driving style.
 

Peter Sarf

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Surely they should all have exactly the same performance and the only variation being driving style.
I suppose it depends if all the 701s have the same version of the software controlling the acceleration/performance. Even if the same version there may be different parameters. Perhaps there is a performance downgrade while a unit is being run in ?.

Another variation could be something mechanical/electrical on the train.

It could be weaker power supply in some areas.

As soon as different drivers are involved then driving style becomes a factor making accurate judgement quite tricky !.
 
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Its interesting to see how taking power wise the 701 units are quite different from. Each other, latest TMS update seems to have traded for most units the starting acceleration for smoother brakes however some units are quite nippy with 006, 009, 011, 019 and 050 being noticeably quick from a standing start.
This is incredibly annoying news.
 

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