Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[NSEWonderer]

Whilst it's great we're getting a new unit every week or two at this rate, how long until we hit a plateau where we're waiting on units to come out of storage? Have any of the ones that were dumped at Worksop been re-activated yet?

They've been managing that well from what I've seen. Storage moves to Wimbledon Park have still been somewhat consistent when required.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Think 1027 arrives tomorrow at the Park from wherever that has been sitting

 

[GW43125]

They've been managing that well from what I've seen. Storage moves to Wimbledon Park have still been somewhat consistent when required.

That's good to hear, thanks. Haven't been keeping up with those moves!

 

[FRSZMZ56]

It's worth pointing out that we now have 18 that have been in passenger service (including the rogue 3 days with 028).
That's nearly a third of all the /0 units already, which I personally don't think is too bad considering we have basically discounted the /5s from the roll out plan for the time being.

Am I right in saying all current remaining 455 and some of the stand-in 450 services can be covered with the /0s alone?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 28 Jul 2025 ==

Also, looks like the SWR twitter account is now explaining the reasons for the timetable change relating to the Arterio driver training: https://x.com/SW_Help/status/1949758486419517476

 

[Goldfish62]

It's worth pointing out that we now have 18 that have been in passenger service (including the rogue 3 days with 028).
That's nearly a third of all the /0 units already, which I personally don't think is too bad considering we have basically discounted the /5s from the roll out plan for the time being.

If we take the starting point as late-May and with approximately one unit per week being introduced I'd say its going at a good rate.

Am I right in saying all current remaining 455 and some of the stand-in 450 services can be covered with the /0s alone?

It's quoted either somewhere on this thread or another one that as of today 455 diagrams would be down to 19.5 pairs. I therefore wouldn't be surprised if the 701/0s can cover both the 450 and 458/4 diagrams as well given how cut back the timetable is compared to 2019.

 

[Bigfoot]

Last time I passed Farnham Shed there was only one unit remaining there, compared to 4 at the peak.

Wimbledon and Alstom seem to have got hold of the underlying issues quite well and are getting faster and probably better at turning around a unit that needs modification/fixes into a serviceable units much faster now.

 

[brad465]

Also, looks like the SWR twitter account is now explaining the reasons for the timetable change relating to the Arterio driver training: https://x.com/SW_Help/status/1949758486419517476

I once suggested something akin to this earlier this year. While my proposition was far more extreme, what's described here is in the same field; reducing passenger services to aid progression of training on new fleet:

How about this for a proposition (speaking as an outsider): this August shut the whole SWR suburban network and advise all the passengers to go on holiday or WFH*. During this time all the suburban network and its drivers, guards, etc. are dedicated to driver and other operation training of the 701s to expedite their rollout, so by September many more are in service with fully-competent staff. Even if not all the units are in service, nor all the old ones withdrawn, if they can get past a tipping point in rollout, the remainder of the process can speed up while maintaining a full passenger service.

*SWR gave the same advice to passengers in 2017 while half of Waterloo was shut for platform-lengthening works, so this is not unprecedented.

 

[norbitonflyer]

It's quoted either somewhere on this thread or another one that as of today 455 diagrams would be down to 19.5 pairs.

There are 15 weekday diagrams for 701s, so we are almost at the cutover point where 701s are more common than 455s

 

[Bikeman78]

It's quoted either somewhere on this thread or another one that as of today 455 diagrams would be down to 19.5 pairs. I therefore wouldn't be surprised if the 701/0s can cover both the 450 and 458/4 diagrams as well given how cut back the timetable is compared to 2019.

I think the Wimbledon slow line service requires 34 sets of stock in the peaks. Add in 12 pairs of class 458/4 gives us 46. What else is left? I can think of a single 455 through Addlestone and one pair to Reading. So that's 48 units. Just leaves a few pairs of 450s to Reading.

 

[TEW]

If we take the starting point as late-May and with approximately one unit per week being introduced I'd say its going at a good rate.

It's quoted either somewhere on this thread or another one that as of today 455 diagrams would be down to 19.5 pairs. I therefore wouldn't be surprised if the 701/0s can cover both the 450 and 458/4 diagrams as well given how cut back the timetable is compared to 2019.

My understanding is that the 60 10-car units don't quite replace all the legacy Suburban fleet, that does require the first few 5 car units too.

 

[WWTownEnth]

My understanding is that the 60 10-car units don't quite replace all the legacy Suburban fleet, that does require the first few 5 car units too.

I thought the legacy fleet was 45 pairs of 455s, 15 pairs of 707s and 18 pairs of 458/5s. That is 78 pairs in total effectively replaced by 60 10 cars and 15 pairs of five cars.

 

[Goldfish62]

I thought the legacy fleet was 45 pairs of 455s, 15 pairs of 707s and 18 pairs of 458/5s. That is 78 pairs in total effectively replaced by 60 10 cars and 15 pairs of five cars.

The 60 701/0 plus 30 701/5 was based on the 2019 bid timetable which was an enhancement of what actually existed in 2019, which in turn was a considerable enhancement over what exists today. Additionally the number of 701s ordered would have replaced the 20+ 450s that have always been allocated to Windsor lines services.

 

[Flange Squeal]

Last time I passed Farnham Shed there was only one unit remaining there, compared to 4 at the peak.

There was a period where Farnham had six units down the back roads.

 

[markle]

deleted

 

[WWTownEnth]

The 60 701/0 plus 30 701/5 was based on the 2019 bid timetable which was an enhancement of what actually existed in 2019, which in turn was a considerable enhancement over what exists today. Additionally the number of 701s ordered would have replaced the 20+ 450s that have always been allocated to Windsor lines services.

So in fact the legacy suburban fleet was 88 pairs (if you include the 10 pairs of 450s). How would a reduction to 75 pairs have facilitated an enhancement to the timetable beyond that in 2019?

 

[swr444]

So in fact the legacy suburban fleet was 88 pairs (if you include the 10 pairs of 450s). How would a reduction to 75 pairs have facilitated an enhancement to the timetable beyond that in 2019?

You have to remember that a fair few of those “pairs” would have included units having maintenance or left as spares in case of a unit failing during service. Plus the 458/5 weren’t the most reliable, even if they were deemed the “most reliable” fleet

 

[Goldfish62]

You have to remember that a fair few of those “pairs” would have included units having maintenance or left as spares in case of a unit failing during service. Plus the 458/5 weren’t the most reliable, even if they were deemed the “most reliable” fleet

The 458/5s were never the most reliable fleet. In fact they were consistently the most unreliable fleet, bottom of the table including the 158/159s.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 29 Jul 2025 ==

To be fair though, getting Epsom and Hounslow loop both back up to 4tph feels like a very sensible thing to do. The excuse more recently has been insufficient rolling stock, which this at least addresses

But Epsom and Hounslow 4tph already existed in 2019 as part of the base timetable. Enhancements were planned to include Reading 4tph all day, seven days a week, plus further extra peak Windsor services.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

left as spares in case of a unit failing during service

No such thing as spares in that (EMU) context in my days. Units not in service were either allocated to exams, or other specifics such heavy cleaning, MODs etc, or stopped for repairs. The last time I and my colleagues had the luxury of 'traffic spare' stock was back in loco hauled stock days, when a number of vehicles were on hand at Clapham Yard as such.

 

[Bikeman78]

To be fair though, getting Epsom and Hounslow loop both back up to 4tph feels like a very sensible thing to do. The excuse more recently has been insufficient rolling stock, which this at least addresses

At which point the reason will be lack of crew. If they cannot do driver training without cutting out services, it seems unlikely that they will increase the service unless they recruit more drivers and guards.

 

[swt_passenger]

I thought the legacy fleet was 45 pairs of 455s, 15 pairs of 707s and 18 pairs of 458/5s. That is 78 pairs in total effectively replaced by 60 10 cars and 15 pairs of five cars.

The 456s were also part of the calculation in terms of overall fleet capacity. 750 cars to replace 742 cars.

 

[Invincible]

Also, looks like the SWR twitter account is now explaining the reasons for the timetable change relating to the Arterio driver training: https://x.com/SW_Help/status/1949758486419517476

So they are already temporary cutting some services, affecting some passengers (Chertsey and Addlestone has peak morning trains cancelled), to do training.
Not sure if this means all drivers will get trained this summer, or if more training and cut services will be needed for the autumn?

 

[Goldfish62]

So they are already temporary cutting some services, affecting some passengers (Chertsey and Addlestone has peak morning trains cancelled), to do training.
Not sure if this means all drivers will get trained this summer, or if more training and cut services will be needed for the autumn?

It's to enable training to continue at the same pace during the summer when holidays mean that more staff are not working.

 

[Invincible]

It's to enable training to continue at the same pace during the summer when holidays mean that more staff are not working.

Good that training is continuing, but the complaints of peak time morning cuts caused by this have been escalated.
SWR have this wrong. Not sure how easy it will be to correct the timetable, restore the service and move the cuts to off peak?

Cuts to South Western Railway summer services criticised by MP

The Runnymede and Weybridge MP says commuters in his constituency are being treated "with contempt".

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Goldfish62]

Good that training is continuing, but the complaints of peak time morning cuts caused by this have been escalated.
SWR have this wrong.

Cuts to South Western Railway summer services criticised by MP

The Runnymede and Weybridge MP says commuters in his constituency are being treated "with contempt".

www.bbc.co.uk

Indeed. There seems to be a big rumpuss about it, and understandably so. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the services get reinstated early, even if it means a modest impact on the training programme.

The same happened when SWT withdrew some services to speed up the 458/0 to 458/5 conversion programme - they quickly had to reinstate them due to the outcry.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

So they are already temporary cutting some services, affecting some passengers (Chertsey and Addlestone has peak morning trains cancelled), to do training.
Not sure if this means all drivers will get trained this summer, or if more training and cut services will be needed for the autumn?

As has been explained elsewhere, short term pain (service cuts for the summer holiday period, a recognised quieter period for peak commuter travel) should allow continued 701 training at a steady pace, in order for a faster 701 roll out by the autumn/winter, which will benefit the commuter traffic at the busier/busiest time of year. Without these albeit less than ideal measures, the 701 roll out going forward will take another hit come autumn/winter, at a time when it is likely more 455's will be hitting the blocks (mileage wise). This isn't rocket science when said and done. Difficult decisions sometimes have to be made.

 

[WWTownEnth]

As has been explained elsewhere, short term pain (service cuts for the summer holiday period, a recognised quieter period for peak commuter travel) should allow continued 701 training at a steady pace, in order for a faster 701 roll out by the autumn/winter, which will benefit the commuter traffic at the busier/busiest time of year. Without these albeit less than ideal measures, the 701 roll out going forward will take another hit come autumn/winter, at a time when it is likely more 455's will be hitting the blocks (mileage wise). This isn't rocket science when said and done. Difficult decisions sometimes have to be made.

As a daily commuter who has been enduring some very difficult journeys since the end of COVID, I must say that I just want this rollout complete. If that means some short term disruption now then so be it.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

As a daily commuter who has been enduring some very difficult journeys since the end of COVID, I must say that I just want this rollout complete. If that means some short term disruption now then so be it.

As said, no one would wish (or plan) for the situation that SWR is currently in, but it is what it is, and they are having to make the best of things, and as I have also mentioned elsewhere, from my 40 plus years on the job, I believe the judgement call they have made in this regard is the least worst option for the longer term. I may be in a minority on a forum such as this and that includes accepting there has been negative public feedback (as mentioned above), but the sooner the pain is over, the sooner the full roll out will be achieved - why drag it out even longer for the sake of a few weeks disruption. But I'm not paying for season ticket, so I do understand peoples anger etc.

 

[davews]

Amused to see a large poster at Martins Heron this morning. 'There will be some minor changes to services at this station'. Try explaining that to the lady wondering where her 0903 train to Waterloo was. And with the schools on holiday that train in particular would be expected to be pretty busy in August...

Came back from Reading on 2C46 this afternoon. There were a couple of SWR chaps in my carriage who at every station looked out from the doors and checked presumably if it was positioned on the platform properly. Are they still doing platform interface checks?

 

[Craig1122]

As said, no one would wish (or plan) for the situation that SWR is currently in, but it is what it is, and they are having to make the best of things, and as I have also mentioned elsewhere, from my 40 plus years on the job, I believe the judgement call they have made in this regard is the least worst option for the longer term. I may be in a minority on a forum such as this and that includes accepting there has been negative public feedback (as mentioned above), but the sooner the pain is over, the sooner the full roll out will be achieved - why drag it out even longer for the sake of a few weeks disruption. But I'm not paying for season ticket, so I do understand peoples anger etc.

I'm in agreement it's probably the least worst choice but the communications around it have been appalling.

Very little publicity, it seemed like they hoped no one would notice, no explanation of the reasons behind it. Then the initial messaging said it was just "off peak" which clearly isn't the case. On top of this an unwillingness to publish a full list of cancellations which has been belatedly corrected. Twitter/X now full of lots of angry passengers who arrived at the station to find their train just didn't exist with no explanation. This could mostly have been avoided.

 

[Goldfish62]

Amused to see a large poster at Martins Heron this morning. 'There will be some minor changes to services at this station'. Try explaining that to the lady wondering where her 0903 train to Waterloo was. And with the schools on holiday that train in particular would be expected to be pretty busy in August...

Well, it is the first train on which off-peak fares are valid...