Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Big Jumby 74]

Thanks, slightly off topic, but do you know why the set has to run to Waterloo from Wimbledon Park then to Hampton Court before starting at Surbiton, same after the diagram finishes at Waterloo (runs to HMC then to Wimbledon Park)

Simple my friend: Pathways in the timetable, combined with track layout infrastructure. Getting trains out of/in to depots (timetable wise) is extremely difficult in the overall timetable sense. Anything after about 0600 in the morning means having to run via a non direct route, and same applies at other peak times. Wish I could explain in more detail to those who have a genuine interest, but there's too much to explain for a comment such as this on a forum such as this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Oct 2024 ==

Thanks, slightly off topic, but do you know why the set has to run to Waterloo from Wimbledon Park then to Hampton Court before starting at Surbiton, same after the diagram finishes at Waterloo (runs to HMC then to Wimbledon Park)

May be something for the Mods to decide?

I responded just recently in good faith, but with hindsight, the question as posed indicates a genuine question, and thus (to me) demonstrates a real interest in why things are planned as they are, aka, as I responded, but thinking further, anyone who asks such a question, might make a good train planner going forward (and the industry is woefully short of same - has been for decades).....if they can put up with old school pay grades etc etc!

 

[Andy1673]

Thanks, slightly off topic, but do you know why the set has to run to Waterloo from Wimbledon Park then to Hampton Court before starting at Surbiton, same after the diagram finishes at Waterloo (runs to HMC then to Wimbledon Park)

Simple my friend: Pathways in the timetable, combined with track layout infrastructure. Getting trains out of/in to depots (timetable wise) is extremely difficult in the overall timetable sense. Anything after about 0600 in the morning means having to run via a non direct route, and same applies at other peak times. Wish I could explain in more detail to those who have a genuine interest, but there's too much to explain for a comment such as this on a forum such as this.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 23 Oct 2024 ==


May be something for the Mods to decide?

I responded just recently in good faith, but with hindsight, the question as posed indicates a genuine question, and thus (to me) demonstrates a real interest in why things are planned as they are, aka, as I responded, but thinking further, anyone who asks such a question, might make a good train planner going forward (and the industry is woefully short of same - has been for decades).....if they can put up with old school pay grades etc etc!

ouch
I hope we know that possible direct route from Wimbledon depot to Hampton Court would cross two up lines during peak time. Then at Surbiton would cross the same up lines and platform occupation on one of those lines for reversing. Same for Waterloo to Wimbledon depot return. In other side why 2J92 cannot start at Hampton Court as normal passenger service...

 

[TEW]

2 extra 701 diagrams planned from Monday;

5U07 0550 Feltham Depot to Twickenham
2U07 0627 Twickenham to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U14 0724 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U17 0833 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U24 0951 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
5Y87 1057 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings
5U45 1432 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
2U45 1533 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U52 1651 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U55 1803 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U62 1921 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U65 2033 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U72 2151 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U75 2303 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
5U75 0006 Windsor & Eton Riverside to Feltham Depot

(FX)
5J90 0635 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
5J92 0706 London Waterloo to Surbiton
2J92 0752 Surbiton to London Waterloo
5J93 0838 London Waterloo to Hampton Court
5Y52 0910 Hampton Court to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings

Plus the current two, with I believe one less trip to Windsor in the evening;

5U09 0540 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
2U09 0633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U16 0751 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U19 0903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U26 1021 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U29 1133 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U36 1251 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U39 1403 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U46 1521 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U49 1633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U56 1751 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U59 1903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U66 2021 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
5Y68 0005 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings

5H89 0452 Strawberry Hill Depot to Shepperton
2H90 0523 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H89 0645 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H96 0800 Shepperton to London Waterloo
5Y82 0910 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings
5H93 1712 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
2H93 1743 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H60 1836 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H59 1942 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H68 2041 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H67 2142 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H76 2241 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H77 2357 London Waterloo to Shepperton
5H84 0041 Shepperton to Strawberry Hill Depot


To support the increase in diagrams there should be some additional units entering passenger service.

 

[GW43125]

Interesting, I wonder what the reliability will turn out to be!

I presume the first diagram will be STP'd from Wimbledon Park rather than leaving the same unit captive on Feltham all week?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Thanks, slightly off topic, but do you know why the set has to run to Waterloo from Wimbledon Park then to Hampton Court before starting at Surbiton, same after the diagram finishes at Waterloo (runs to HMC then to Wimbledon Park)

By using the flyovers at Wimbledon and Hampton Court Junction it can get to the up slow at Surbiton without having to cross the fast lines on the flat. Likewise to get back to Wimbledon Park from Waterloo.

 

[Andy1673]

By using the flyovers at Wimbledon and Hampton Court Junction it can get to the up slow at Surbiton without having to cross the fast lines on the flat. Likewise to get back to Wimbledon Park from Waterloo.

Wimbledon flyover bears up slow over up and down fast towards Waterloo, Hampton Court flyover bears down Hampton Court off Surbiton on its country end. None helps to avoid crossing down fast and two up lines.

 

[swr444]

Wimbledon flyover bears up slow over up and down fast towards Waterloo, Hampton Court flyover bears down Hampton Court off Surbiton on its country end. None helps to avoid crossing down fast and two up lines.

I was curious as to how they thought the flyovers worked

 

[Andy1673]

I was curious as to how they thought the flyovers worked

 

[TEW]

Interesting, I wonder what the reliability will turn out to be!

I presume the first diagram will be STP'd from Wimbledon Park rather than leaving the same unit captive on Feltham all week?

Like with the Strawberry Hill diagram it returns to Wimbledon Depot in the day so units can be swapped out as required there.

 

[DelW]

Wimbledon flyover bears up slow over up and down fast towards Waterloo, Hampton Court flyover bears down Hampton Court off Surbiton on its country end. None helps to avoid crossing down fast and two up lines.

I was curious as to how they thought the flyovers worked

Wouldn't the following work?

Wimbledon depot > up slow > Waterloo suburban platform (crosses up and down mains via Wimbledon flyover)

Waterloo suburban > down slow > down Hampton Court (crosses all four tracks via Hampton Court flyover)

Up Hampton Court > up slow > Surbiton

I don't have my Quail to hand to confirm, but that seems to me to get a unit from Wimbledon to Surbiton up slow without any conflicts other than possibly Waterloo throat?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Are you sure about that?

2 extra 701 diagrams planned from Monday;

5U07 0550 Feltham Depot to Twickenham
2U07 0627 Twickenham to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U14 0724 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U17 0833 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U24 0951 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
5Y87 1057 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings
5U45 1432 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
2U45 1533 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U52 1651 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U55 1803 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U62 1921 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U65 2033 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U72 2151 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U75 2303 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
5U75 0006 Windsor & Eton Riverside to Feltham Depot

(FX)
5J90 0635 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
5J92 0706 London Waterloo to Surbiton
2J92 0752 Surbiton to London Waterloo
5J93 0838 London Waterloo to Hampton Court
5Y52 0910 Hampton Court to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings

Plus the current two, with I believe one less trip to Windsor in the evening;

5U09 0540 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
2U09 0633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U16 0751 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U19 0903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U26 1021 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U29 1133 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U36 1251 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U39 1403 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U46 1521 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U49 1633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U56 1751 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U59 1903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U66 2021 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
5Y68 0005 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings

5H89 0452 Strawberry Hill Depot to Shepperton
2H90 0523 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H89 0645 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H96 0800 Shepperton to London Waterloo
5Y82 0910 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings
5H93 1712 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
2H93 1743 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H60 1836 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H59 1942 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H68 2041 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H67 2142 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H76 2241 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H77 2357 London Waterloo to Shepperton
5H84 0041 Shepperton to Strawberry Hill Depot


To support the increase in diagrams there should be some additional units entering passenger service

Out of interest, how many Windsor diagrams are there in total on weekdays?

 

[Andy1673]

Wouldn't the following work?

Wimbledon depot > up slow > Waterloo suburban platform (crosses up and down mains via Wimbledon flyover)

Waterloo suburban > down slow > down Hampton Court (crosses all four tracks via Hampton Court flyover)

Up Hampton Court > up slow > Surbiton

I don't have my Quail to hand to confirm, but that seems to me to get a unit from Wimbledon to Surbiton up slow without any conflicts other than possibly Waterloo throat?

Almost right. Wimbledon depot -> up fast -> to Waterloo (Wimbledon flyover nearer to the London end of Wimbledon station than exit off depot towards London.

 

[Stephen42]

Out of interest, how many Windsor diagrams are there in total on weekdays?

The circuit takes 2.5 hours giving 5 diagrams doing just Windsor services. There's then two additional diagrams which have some Windsor trips, 2U27/2U34/2U37/2U44 are done by a diagram including Weybridge and loops and 2U69/2U76 by a train diagram spending the rest of the day going to Shepperton. Those cover the gap between peaks in the diagram about to go to 701s and till the end of service for the current Wimbledon Park to Wimbledon Park Windsor diagram respectively. As TEW notes 2U69/2U76 are mostly done by the 701s at the moment (except maybe Fridays?).

For the main Windsor diagrams, two out of those five will be 701s from the above. There's one that starts and ends at Feltham Depot which logistically looks the next easiest Windsor to move over. The other two would need to move other together, might require weekend working and/or shuffling of diagrams as they differ on Fridays and are the ones that start/end at Windsor itself.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Wimbledon depot -> up fast -> to Waterloo (Wimbledon flyover nearer to the London end of Wimbledon station than exit off depot towards London

A not so good knock-on of the 701's (in 10 car format) is that the Wimbledon depot exit (London direction) that takes trains out and up over that flyover (Up Slow), becomes unusable, as that route is max 8 cars off the depot. Puts extra strain on the use of the other exits.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Out of interest, how many Windsor diagrams are there in total on weekdays?

At least five - the existing 701 diagram forms 2u09, 2u16, 2u19, 2u26, 2u29 etc, so something else must form 2ux8/2ux1, 2ux0/2ux3, 2ux2/2ux5, and 2ux4/2ux7

Indeed, the new diagram runs
2Ux7/x4 to 2u24, then a three hour sojourn in the sidings before resuming as 2u45/52

 

[Big Jumby 74]

ouch

Sorry, I didn't mean to infer those planners in situ are not up to the job (if that is how my comment was taken?). Possibly not worded very well on my part? Those in job are/were very good, but in general terms, when there are shortages, the industry has in the past struggled to find new people to fill the roles. It probably goes around in swings and roundabouts year on year, but have known several instances where people have come to look at a particular planning vacancy, but then decided it wasn't for them. No offence meant up thread.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Almost right. Wimbledon depot -> up fast -> to Waterloo (Wimbledon flyover nearer to the London end of Wimbledon station than exit off depot towards London.

RTT for Monday shows 5J90 using platform 8 (the up fast) at Clapham Junction and platform 9 at waterloo, then forming 5J92 which uses platfom 9 (down fast) at Clapham Junction and platform 7 (down fast) at Wimbledon, and platform 3 at Surbiton (down slow) (it must be on the slow lines at Surbiton if it is going to Hampton Court)

 

[swr444]

Wouldn't the following work?

Wimbledon depot > up slow > Waterloo suburban platform (crosses up and down mains via Wimbledon flyover)

Waterloo suburban > down slow > down Hampton Court (crosses all four tracks via Hampton Court flyover)

Up Hampton Court > up slow > Surbiton

I don't have my Quail to hand to confirm, but that seems to me to get a unit from Wimbledon to Surbiton up slow without any conflicts other than possibly Waterloo throat?

This is pretty much what it does but uses the up fast to get to Waterloo and then down the down fast to surbiton and then crosses over to get to Hampton court. From next week it looks like the guard is waterloo based instead of Wimbledon.

(Apologies I hadn’t seen the previous replies to this, stating pretty much what I had said)

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Another 701 had a fault today apparently. Not sure what service or where

 

[Goldfish62]

2 extra 701 diagrams planned from Monday;

5U07 0550 Feltham Depot to Twickenham
2U07 0627 Twickenham to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U14 0724 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U17 0833 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U24 0951 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
5Y87 1057 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings
5U45 1432 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
2U45 1533 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U52 1651 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U55 1803 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U62 1921 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U65 2033 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U72 2151 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U75 2303 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
5U75 0006 Windsor & Eton Riverside to Feltham Depot

(FX)
5J90 0635 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
5J92 0706 London Waterloo to Surbiton
2J92 0752 Surbiton to London Waterloo
5J93 0838 London Waterloo to Hampton Court
5Y52 0910 Hampton Court to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings

Plus the current two, with I believe one less trip to Windsor in the evening;

5U09 0540 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
2U09 0633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U16 0751 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U19 0903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U26 1021 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U29 1133 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U36 1251 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U39 1403 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U46 1521 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U49 1633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U56 1751 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U59 1903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U66 2021 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
5Y68 0005 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings

5H89 0452 Strawberry Hill Depot to Shepperton
2H90 0523 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H89 0645 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H96 0800 Shepperton to London Waterloo
5Y82 0910 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings
5H93 1712 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
2H93 1743 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H60 1836 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H59 1942 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H68 2041 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H67 2142 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H76 2241 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H77 2357 London Waterloo to Shepperton
5H84 0041 Shepperton to Strawberry Hill Depot


To support the increase in diagrams there should be some additional units entering passenger service.

That's positive.

How many more diagrams can be introduced utilising DIs before the inevitable hiatus while sufficient ordinary drivers are trained?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Anyone know what's on the Shepperton diagram this evening? RTT is being coy

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 24 Oct 2024 ==

Another 701 had a fault today apparently. Not sure what service or where

701043 taken out of service at Waterloo aabout 0900 after working 2U16 from Windsor. Empty to depot three hours later. cancelled "due to a mishap" 701037 took over the diiagram having worked the morning Shepperton runs.

 

[greaterwest]

Anyone know what's on the Shepperton diagram this evening? RTT is being coy

701043 again.

 

[TEW]

That's positive.

How many more diagrams can be introduced utilising DIs before the inevitable hiatus while sufficient ordinary drivers are trained?

I don't really know where the idea that it's only DIs being trained has come from, but it's not. Training is continuing at a steady rate and diagram introduction should too. It will also be dependent on unit acceptance though.

 

[Goldfish62]

I don't really know where the idea that it's only DIs being trained has come from, but it's not. Training is continuing at a steady rate and diagram introduction should too. It will also be dependent on unit acceptance though.

I was surprised when it was stated, but stated it certainly was a few posts back with a seeming large degree of authority!

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I don't really know where the idea that it's only DIs being trained has come from, but it's not. Training is continuing at a steady rate and diagram introduction should too. It will also be dependent on unit acceptance though.

⬇️

The majority of the DI's have now been trained who work at the inner depots (Waterloo, Wimbledon, S Hill, Feltham and Staines) The intention is to run 3 course groups concurrently from next month. They are now beginning to work their way through the rest of the driving grade.

 

[Andy1673]

2 extra 701 diagrams planned from Monday;

5U07 0550 Feltham Depot to Twickenham
2U07 0627 Twickenham to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U14 0724 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U17 0833 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U24 0951 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
5Y87 1057 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings
5U45 1432 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
2U45 1533 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U52 1651 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U55 1803 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U62 1921 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U65 2033 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U72 2151 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U75 2303 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
5U75 0006 Windsor & Eton Riverside to Feltham Depot

(FX)
5J90 0635 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
5J92 0706 London Waterloo to Surbiton
2J92 0752 Surbiton to London Waterloo
5J93 0838 London Waterloo to Hampton Court
5Y52 0910 Hampton Court to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings

Plus the current two, with I believe one less trip to Windsor in the evening;

5U09 0540 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
2U09 0633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U16 0751 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U19 0903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U26 1021 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U29 1133 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U36 1251 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U39 1403 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U46 1521 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U49 1633 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U56 1751 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
2U59 1903 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
2U66 2021 Windsor & Eton Riverside to London Waterloo
5Y68 0005 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings

5H89 0452 Strawberry Hill Depot to Shepperton
2H90 0523 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H89 0645 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H96 0800 Shepperton to London Waterloo
5Y82 0910 London Waterloo to Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings
5H93 1712 Wimbledon Park Depot Sidings to London Waterloo
2H93 1743 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H60 1836 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H59 1942 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H68 2041 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H67 2142 London Waterloo to Shepperton
2H76 2241 Shepperton to London Waterloo
2H77 2357 London Waterloo to Shepperton
5H84 0041 Shepperton to Strawberry Hill Depot


To support the increase in diagrams there should be some additional units entering passenger service.

Out of curiosity where will be used released off 5U07-5U75 circuit a pair of 450s which booked on it now? Any on one day Wimbledon depot to Wimbledon depot circuit now booked for a pair of 455s?

 

[Elorith]

So they're calling it a new phase for Shepperton and Hampton Court, even though both times the routes got like one or two a day? I think that's quite pathetic.

The biggest issues with these trains over the last year have related to issues with the infrastructure and route.

Going from not being able to run anything at all to running anything is a fairly significant step.

 

[swr444]

Out of curiosity where will be used released off 5U07-5U75 circuit a pair of 450s which booked on it now? Any on one day Wimbledon depot to Wimbledon depot circuit now booked for a pair of 455s?

Hopefully to strengthen short formed peak time services which seems to be the norm at the moment

 

[norbitonflyer]

701043 again.

(Shepperton) early night though - 2H76/77 cancelled

 

[Forestboy]

In reference to TEW'S list above.Feltham depot now have 2 diagrams that incorporate 701 traction from Monday 28/10/24.