Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[Stephen42]

One question regarding the testing of the trains: why are they only being tested on the Hounslow Loop? Presumably this is for fault-free testing + putting some miles on them, but since the 458/4s are already operating on that line, why would they do it there?

Since we don't know where they are planning to introduce the next diagrams, one can only assume this is just for the Windsor side, although the odd test trip to Hampton Court and Shepperton + Kingston Loop this week are promising signs for broader deployment soon, although we can't get our hopes up of course!

With the 707s leaving tomorrow, and the amount of shortened formations appearing, what with needing repairs, and sending off /5s for refurb, they surely have to introduce them on these lines soon, right?

There's various different types of testing. It's plausible the Hounslow Loop trips are also being used for driver training where the conversion course often would require a certain amount of practical handling.

More testing paths have appeared for early next week over more of the network. They are all "runs as required" so might not actually run. Next week has Shepperton again, Strawberry Hill depot, Wimbledon including fast line platforms, Hampton Court both platforms and Epsom. All late at night with dwells consistent with platform train interface style of testing though these sort of trips often don't stop everywhere scheduled.

 

[TEW]

The Hounslow Loop runs are mainly driver training AFAIK which is why they have stepped in frequency since driver training started.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Testing of any stock, new, rebuilt etc, is largely driven by the availability of pathways (not to mention availability of the relevant trainers), and even so, is (or was, in my time) often still delegated to the small wee hours, but that latter is no longer as simple as it was 30-40 years ago, as the infrastructure owner (NR in todays world) require over night 'time' on many routes to be kept clear.
IIRC we use to do high speed emergency braking tests on occasion on the SWML over night, but only on the old 'race track' between Farnborough and Hook, just as one example. The fact testing is being done round the Brentford loop is likely due to there being plenty of spare paths with minimal risk to disrupting service trains.
Other types of testing, platform clearances etc, obviously need to be done along the lines of route that the stock concerned is due to work, and therefore can prove more problematic when it comes to pathing same.

 

[spark001uk]

Realtime Trains | 5Q87 1234 Long Marston Gbrf to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs | 06/09/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q87 1234 departure from Long Marston Gbrf to Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs on 06/09/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

69008 + 701041, was going to Eastleigh but now Wim Pk

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Looking through old approval records, I've noticed the 701 was approved by the ORR on the 1st of April 2022. These sorts of things are never without a bit of irony, it seems.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Summer ends in 14 days. Any word on which of those late summer days we are likely to see more services introduced?

 

[OneTrackMinded]

Summer ends in 14 days. Any word on which of those late summer days we are likely to see more services introduced?

The timeframe was late summer/early autumn, so it could also fall into the first few weeks of the latter. Maybe late September/early October ish?

 

[WWTownEnth]

fair enough but that should reasonably mean that we are max 28 days away from some kind of breakthrough, if SWR is to be believed (which is not likely I accept)

 

[DelW]

fair enough but that should reasonably mean that we are max 28 days away from some kind of breakthrough, if SWR is to be believed (which is not likely I accept)

Hmmm, SWR have made and broken plenty of promises during their seven year tenure. I don't think I can think of any that they've delivered on within their original timescale, though maybe there are some which I've missed or forgotten .

 

[OneTrackMinded]

fair enough but that should reasonably mean that we are max 28 days away from some kind of breakthrough, if SWR is to be believed (which is not likely I accept)

I don't see why it wouldn't happen considering driver training has been in full swing uninterrupted for quite a while now. Both ASLEF and RMT have their agreements signed and sealed, etc etc
The only thing I could think of that might prevent progress is if the trains themselves aren't ready for passenger service, with only a few being marked down as suitable at the moment.

 

[swtrains]

Summer ends in 14 days. Any word on which of those late summer days we are likely to see more services introduced?

My guess is that we might see some new services as part of the Autumn timetable, although it's the 701s we're talking about, so we should keep our tin foil hats on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

Also, I'm speculating that the addition of the 0752 Surbiton - London Waterloo (2J92) from this Monday has been added due to the 707s removal, since it gets extremely busy from Thames Ditton onwards, and that train (2J16) is now only 5-cars since they're off for refurbishment, which isn't enough capacity for peak. 2J92 will be a pair of 455s, which isn't surprising to anyone.

 

[Lockwood]

And the usual reply to that? All together now... "They didn't say which summer/autumn"

This wasn't entirely a joke...

 

[DMckduck]

My guess is that we might see some new services as part of the Autumn timetable, although it's the 701s we're talking about, so we should keep our tin foil hats on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

Also, I'm speculating that the addition of the 0752 Surbiton - London Waterloo (2J92) from this Monday has been added due to the 707s removal, since it gets extremely busy from Thames Ditton onwards, and that train (2J16) is now only 5-cars since they're off for refurbishment, which isn't enough capacity for peak. 2J92 will be a pair of 455s, which isn't surprising to anyone.

Baffling as to why it couldn't be a 701. Core route worked by all crews.

Amazing how there's all these drivers guards trained, yet they still can't even add another separate service than the soft launch diagram.

Pretty sure the driver and guard diagram that works this 2J92 will be a special job aswell. When will this charade end.

 

[TJM]

My guess is that we might see some new services as part of the Autumn timetable, although it's the 701s we're talking about, so we should keep our tin foil hats on.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 8 Sep 2024 ==

Also, I'm speculating that the addition of the 0752 Surbiton - London Waterloo (2J92) from this Monday has been added due to the 707s removal, since it gets extremely busy from Thames Ditton onwards, and that train (2J16) is now only 5-cars since they're off for refurbishment, which isn't enough capacity for peak. 2J92 will be a pair of 455s, which isn't surprising to anyone.

Even more bizarre is it's running ECS to Hampton Court platform 2 to reverse back to Surbiton - why not start it in service at Hampton Court if they want a peak-time crowd buster?

 

[TEW]

Baffling as to why it couldn't be a 701. Core route worked by all crews.

Amazing how there's all these drivers guards trained, yet they still can't even add another separate service than the soft launch diagram.

Pretty sure the driver and guard diagram that works this 2J92 will be a special job aswell. When will this charade end.

701s are only cleared for passenger service Waterloo to Windsor and the Hounslow Loop.

 

[swr444]

Even more bizarre is it's running ECS to Hampton Court platform 2 to reverse back to Surbiton - why not start it in service at Hampton Court if they want a peak-time crowd buster?

Because it’s there to alleviate pressure between surbiton and earlsfield. Hopefully this extra service will take the strain off the Hampton court train so people in berrylands etc can get on easily

 

[DMckduck]

701s are only cleared for passenger service Waterloo to Windsor and the Hounslow Loop.

Ahh right, I wonder how many platforms have failed on the mainline then. Vauxhall and clapham makes it 2, so only need 1 more on any route now and DCO yet again fails.

 

[Goldfish62]

Ahh right, I wonder how many platforms have failed on the mainline then. Vauxhall and clapham makes it 2, so only need 1 more on any route now and DCO yet again fails.

Incredible how such a complete mess is being made of all this.

It's obviously not DCO that's failing, it's the incompetence in its implementation.

 

[Andy1673]

701s are only cleared for passenger service Waterloo to Windsor and the Hounslow Loop.

Very bad. Seems to me that SWR doesn`t want to enter 701s in normal passenger service and won`t do it. Tomorrow we`ll hear new expalanations and excuses why they cannot enter them in service then again and again.

 

[Goldfish62]

Very bad. Seems to me that SWR doesn`t want to enter 701s in normal passenger service and won`t do it. Tomorrow we`ll hear new expalanations and excuses why they cannot enter them in service then again and again.

But then 458/5s are only currently cleared on Hounslow loop / Weybridge lines.

 

[Andy1673]

But then 458/5s are only currently cleared on Hounslow loop / Weybridge lines.

Yes but SWR told that 458/4 (not /5) are only temporarily solution until 701s enter in service. Time to enter 701s in service normally has come and where are they? SWR will be just very sorry if all their services will be served by the single 444, 450 or 455 and that will be ok for SWR not for customers.

 

[DMckduck]

Incredible how such a complete mess is being made of all this.

It's obviously not DCO that's failing, it's the incompetence in its implementation.

They would rather die by their sword and fix all the platform interface issues before introduction I bet! Nevermind increased reliability or performance for paying customers.

In an ideal world a simple solution could be to come out and be transparent and admit they currently have issues with implementing DCO so a temporary fix may see different and signed off methods of operation being used where required. I don't think the customers would be too bothered about that.

I'm pretty sure they can work on fixing PTI whilst also getting these trains into service. Excuses, Excuses etc...

 

[Goldfish62]

They would rather die by their sword and fix all the platform interface issues before introduction I bet! Nevermind increased reliability or performance for paying customers.

In an ideal world a simple solution could be to come out and be transparent and admit they currently have issues with implementing DCO so a temporary fix may see different and signed off methods of operation being used where required. I don't think the customers would be too bothered about that.

I'm pretty sure they can work on fixing PTI whilst also getting these trains into service. Excuses, Excuses etc...

Still can't fathom how they're struggling so much yet GA managed to implement full DCO throughout its network, including at some deeply rural stations.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 9 Sep 2024 ==

Yes but SWR told that 458/4 (not /5) are only temporarily solution until 701s enter in service. Time to enter 701s in service normally has come and where are they? SWR will be just very sorry if all their services will be served by the single 444, 450 or 455 and that will be ok for SWR not for customers.

But Windsor and Hounslow loop are precisely where they're due to enter service first. Unless you're suggesting that clearance on these two lines is the final position and no further work is now being carried out elsewhere.

 

[TEW]

Still can't fathom how they're struggling so much yet GA managed to implement full DCO throughout its network, including at some deeply rural stations.

The more rural stations on SWR are not the more problematic ones. It's a combination of the majority of platforms have never been cleared for DCO before, the standards are probably much higher now than 30 years ago, and it's different ASLEF reps involved who may be more resistant.

 

[SWT_USER]

Incredible how such a complete mess is being made of all this.

It's obviously not DCO that's failing, it's the incompetence in its implementation.

Agree, it's genuinely ridiculous that five years after they were due to be in service they can't even carry passengers on the bulk routes they are meant to serve.

Was it back in February SWR said 18 months until they were all going to be in service? 6 months on and it's still only one daily diagram.

 

[pompeyfan]

Perhaps the mods could lock this thread until there is a genuine update? It’s getting really tedious and tiresome reading the same old moan and groans. Yes it is poor they’re not in widespread use yet, yes there is only 1 daily diagram, yes there is issues with the method of operation, but all these things have been covered to death and quite frankly it’s boring.

 

[Goldfish62]

Perhaps the mods could lock this thread until there is a genuine update? It’s getting really tedious and tiresome reading the same old moan and groans. Yes it is poor they’re not in widespread use yet, yes there is only 1 daily diagram, yes there is issues with the method of operation, but all these things have been covered to death and quite frankly it’s boring.

I think you have a good point.

 

[Peter Sarf]

Perhaps the mods could lock this thread until there is a genuine update? It’s getting really tedious and tiresome reading the same old moan and groans. Yes it is poor they’re not in widespread use yet, yes there is only 1 daily diagram, yes there is issues with the method of operation, but all these things have been covered to death and quite frankly it’s boring.

The only "news" is perhaps currently the training of staff - albeit still glacial results.

Locking this thread will only spawn a myriad of alternative threads making the gleaning of any information even harder.

Maybe a dedicated and heavily moderated thread (progress only) is the answer.
Erm this thread.

 

[SWT_USER]

Perhaps the mods could lock this thread until there is a genuine update? It’s getting really tedious and tiresome reading the same old moan and groans. Yes it is poor they’re not in widespread use yet, yes there is only 1 daily diagram, yes there is issues with the method of operation, but all these things have been covered to death and quite frankly it’s boring.

That's fair, although I would keep the thread open as I think people are more likely to post any update on an open thread and may not go to the trouble of messaging moderators to re open it. On my part this is my 62nd post in this thread and I am sure most of them are complaints. I will try and refrain from further posts along the same lines and fingers crossed for some good news soon!

 

[DMckduck]

Perhaps the mods could lock this thread until there is a genuine update? It’s getting really tedious and tiresome reading the same old moan and groans. Yes it is poor they’re not in widespread use yet, yes there is only 1 daily diagram, yes there is issues with the method of operation, but all these things have been covered to death and quite frankly it’s boring.

Can this thread not be a bit of both, there's been a lot of useful information put on this thread that if constantly locked and unlocked probably wouldn't be on here.

Locking this thread will just make way for another one like for like that stays temporarily open. There's no bad blood in here and a good dialogue, heavy handed moderation isn't always necessary on this website.