Goldfish62
Veteran Member
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- 14 Feb 2010
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345 drivers desk as a comparison.
The 701 driver training simulator. Unfortunately this image doesn't mean training is starting
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Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates
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Nicholas Lewis
Established Member
bahnause
Member
Is a sim really required for driver training? We usually get two (sometimes three) days of training for new traction and half a day of preparation as "homework" before the course. Then we sign ourselves off.
OneTrackMinded
Member
Something that puzzles me is the decision to continue to outsource the Aventra software to the office in Bangalore. With all the issues encounter throughout the past few years, (less because of a lack of expertise and more because they have apparently no testing environment and have to take wild guesses often) surely from a business perspective this is costing Alstom more than it would to hire an on-shore team, preferably at Derby? A large chunk of the 701s delay for example has been software based, and the company is therefore having to pay an excess to the leasing company. It's also terrible for their reputation and as a result a blow on their appeal when it comes to tender offerings. I think we all remember what the Coradia family fiasco did to Alstom in the UK back in the early 2000s.
Waterlemon
Member
Theres the traction bit as normal which takes about that long and then another few days for the DCO bit
SEtrains
Member
It was 701025
Fincra5
Established Member
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Each TOC has different Training Agreements compared to the other.
I also don't agree with "Signing Yourself Off"... Should be done by a Trainer or Development Manager to prove competence.
The question is: are there folks available to be hired at Derby? I doubt it.
RichSwitch
Member
It shouldn’t matter where the software team is located. What should matter is three things:
1. They understand the product
2. They understand the specification
3. They’re competent
Of course this relies on whomever produces the software specification being competent also.
OneTrackMinded
Member
The problem with this specific case though is they have no testing environment which makes it very hard to ensure things work
bahnause
Member
In our country, train drivers in their position as trained specialists are trusted to make such self-assessments. I also don't see how the trainer present could carry out such an assessment properly in the time available. Trainers and examiners are separate functions in our organisation, as the requirements are quite far apart.
We also have very few train-specific processes. Things like DOO are either permitted with the a specific train or not, the wayit works doesn‘t differ from train to train. Anyone can drive DOO trains. This seems to be slightly different in the case of 701 training.
Therefore, we also have a relatively short part of driving practice in the training for a new vehicle. There is usually not much more than 20-30 minutes per participant with a few stops, and all without a guard present.
Fincra5
Established Member
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The UK is very different to the better Swiss model for sure!
bahnause
Member
It's very different for a reason I suspect. Less fragmentation and more harmonisation over the last 25 years or so. That offers a lot of flexibility and straightforward solutions. I don't think think something like a swiss style DOO solution would be feasible with the existing NR infrastructure.
In many places the issue with DOO is not infrastructure but human resistance
It probably hasn’t helped that standards have changed, if the 701s were introduced anywhere else on a DCO/DOO network, they’d probably bed in very quickly (once software faults etc were resolved). However where this is DOO from scratch the hurdles have likely grown significantly, even when compared to when Southern extended DOO across their EMU network 8 years ago.
That said, when compared to GA becoming DCO on all their routes in some very remote and rural places, there does appear to be something amiss, whether that be union cooperation, something to do with project management or other influences.
OneTrackMinded
Member
Recently learned that, at some point during testing (probably a few years ago), a unit didn't have it's earth wire connected properly and 750v was going through one of the passenger tables..
GEC465
Member
- Joined
- 10 Mar 2016
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- 415
How did they find that out?
It tickles.
The phone charged very quickly
Peter Mugridge
Veteran Member
I trust it didn't have the full 5000+ amps in the table as well...?
The table melted??
OneTrackMinded
Member
Some more guards are "reportedly" starting to begin training on the units, although again I stress this is nothing to do with driver training. Also can't confirm if this is not just more managers.
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Purple Train
Established Member
Would I be correct in saying that the 18.15 Waterloo-Waterloo is the only 701-operated evening service at present?
Andy1673
Member
- Joined
- 10 May 2019
- Messages
- 947
Yes that`s right
How on earth does traction current end up anywhere near the saloon interior fittings?!
Purple Train
Established Member
Thanks.
WarrenTManager
Member
I don't think that was quite the case!
Does sound like there is an element of truth in that something was built/connected in a questionable way and the usual railway rumour mill has inflated it from a small issue to con rail connected passenger tables.