Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[OneTrackMinded]

Do workers even read them? Surely they know the length of units they are working with?

Surely they’re there for a reason? I imagine that it’s easy to forget the exact figures, especially when you’re working with 450s, four subclasses 455s, two subclasses of 458s and two subclasses of 701s.

 

[norbitonflyer]

Are units routinely lifted as a whole, rather than just the one carriage?

I seem to recall reading that the lathe (at Wimbledon?) can work on five cars, which is why the 701/0s can be split in the middle

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I seem to recall reading that the lathe (at Wimbledon?) can work on five cars, which is why the 701/0s can be split in the middle

Speaking from past tense, but I believe that is still correct. The reason being the length of the siding at the buffer stop end can only accommodate 5 cars that side of the lathe/shed. The old lift roads would lift one car at a time, but since the bogie drop was installed outside of the old lift shed, most bogie work would I imagine be undertaken there, but again the siding length is such that - depending on which bogie/car is needed - 5 cars would be the norm when such work is in progress. The engineering part of the depot (East depot) has a very cramped footprint bounded by Durnsford Road and Gresham Way industrial estate as it is.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

I seem to recall reading that the lathe (at Wimbledon?) can work on five cars, which is why the 701/0s can be split in the middle

Same reason why 701/5s exist. Otherwise they’d all be 10 cars.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Same reason why 701/5s exist. Otherwise they’d all be 10 cars.

Not just that, but general stabling at locations other than Wimbledon depot as well.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Any sign of a new diagram (or diagrams) for next week?

 

[norbitonflyer]

Same reason why 701/5s exist. Otherwise they’d all be 10 cars.

There may be some turns where a five-car is needed. For example the bay at Kingston will only take 8 cars, so if trains are terminating there (eg maintenance between there and New Malden) they could be useful. (Trains can now reverse in platform 2, but there may be times when two trains have to be there at once)

 

[TEW]

Any sign of a new diagram (or diagrams) for next week?

No new diagram next week.

 

[OneTrackMinded]

No new diagram next week.

So now it’s one diagram every two weeks? What a joke. Especially after the summer timetable where they supposedly were making adjustments so the programme could speed up.

 

[TEW]

No diagram was the plan this week. As I said a few weeks back, it will continue to be roughly one diagram a week, with the 455s replaced by the end of the year.

 

[Nimbus020]

No diagram was the plan this week. As I said a few weeks back, it will continue to be roughly one diagram a week, with the 455s replaced by the end of the year.

Many thanks for this - will 450s continue to be diagrammed at the same level as now for 'metro' routes on the mainline suburban network? (to Chessington South etc.)

 

[Goldfish62]

No diagram was the plan this week. As I said a few weeks back, it will continue to be roughly one diagram a week, with the 455s replaced by the end of the year.

I don't see how that's going to be achievable now. It's now running at less than one diagram a week. So much for the "summer timetable" speeding things up.

 

[Bikeman78]

I don't see how that's going to be achievable now. It's now running at less than one diagram a week. So much for the "summer timetable" speeding things up.

It won't be far off. I think there are 14 class 455 turns left. So a few will probably see in the New Year, mainly as ad hoc cover.

 

[TEW]

I don't see how that's going to be achievable now. It's now running at less than one diagram a week. So much for the "summer timetable" speeding things up.

Things should speed up in November. The Summer timetable definitely didn't speed things up. It probably prevented it needing to slow down.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2025 ==

Many thanks for this - will 450s continue to be diagrammed at the same level as now for 'metro' routes on the mainline suburban network? (to Chessington South etc.)

For now, yes. They should start to be replaced in to next year. The priority is to replace the 455s.

 

[Goldfish62]

It won't be far off. I think there are 14 class 455 turns left. So a few will probably see in the New Year, mainly as ad hoc cover.

Yes. After next week there's 11 weeks before Christmas, so if it's one diagram per week on average consistently (it's not at the moment) then I reckon it'll be around the end of January that the 455 turns are eliminated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2025 ==

Things should speed up in November. The Summer timetable definitely didn't speed things up. It probably prevented it needing to slow down.

OK, thanks for the info.

 

[Nimbus020]

Many thanks for this - will 450s continue to be diagrammed at the same level as now for 'metro' routes on the mainline suburban network? (to Chessington South etc.)

A bit more context: the 08:41, 10:11, 10:41, 11:11, 11:41, 13:11, 15:11, 16:41, 17:11, 18:11, 19:41, 21:41 & 22:41 from Chessington South to W'loo are 8-car 450s today (using 8 different pairs of 450s, services @ half hour frequency) - shows the need for the 450s in this interim 455 - 701 transition period

 

[Peter Sarf]

No diagram was the plan this week. As I said a few weeks back, it will continue to be roughly one diagram a week, with the 455s replaced by the end of the year.

Indeed. Looks like this week an extra pair of 455s were off to the scrapyard today.

Realtime Trains | 5Q86 1035 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) | 17/09/2025

Real-time train running information for 5Q86 1035 departure from Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs to Newport Docks (Simsgroup) on 17/09/2025. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

That is in addition to the usual 5Q76 move on Mondays.

 

[Goldfish62]

A bit more context: the 08:41, 10:11, 10:41, 11:11, 11:41, 13:11, 15:11, 16:41, 17:11, 18:11, 19:41, 21:41 & 22:41 from Chessington South to W'loo are 8-car 450s today (using 8 different pairs of 450s, services @ half hour frequency) - shows the need for the 450s in this interim 455 - 701 transition period

And of course all 127 450s have never been allocated exclusively to mainline outer suburban and long distance work. Since their introduction there's always been a requirement for a fair number of units on Windsor / Reading / Weybridge services.

 

[NSEWonderer]

I don't see how that's going to be achievable now. It's now running at less than one diagram a week. So much for the "summer timetable" speeding things up.

It can be quite easily achievable. There hasn't been a downturn in training of staff on 701s which has been going pretty soundly for a while. Unit trialing is also moving at a quicker pace and will continue to, there could weeks where more than 2 Diagrams could quite possibly show up to fill any previous deficit. The supply side of things to aid new diagram introduction at this current point is ticking at a good level than previously.

 

[Goldfish62]

It can be quite easily achievable. There hasn't been a downturn in training of staff on 701s which has been going pretty soundly for a while. Unit trialing is also moving at a quicker pace and will continue to, there could weeks where more than 2 Diagrams could quite possibly show up to fill any previous deficit. The supply side of things to aid new diagram introduction at this current point is ticking at a good level than previously.

My comment was on the basis of it being reported above that introduction would be at the rate of one diagram per week until the end of the year. After next week, when nothing is happening it's 11 weeks until Christmas, with 14 diagrams to cover.

However, thanks for explaining that the rate is actually likely to be greater than one per week!

 

[TEW]

The rate is roughly one per week from when diagrams regularly started being introduced. We're in a slightly slower period at the moment, but it should speed up a bit later on to average out.
There was less driver training taking place in the Summer and it's probably partly as a result of that that the cascade has slowed down slightly at the moment.
The plan is definitely for 455s to be gone by the end of the year, but it's not an absolutely hard cut off date and they could continue if required. I suspect it would likely be 701 unit availability if anything that is the limiting factor then.

 

[Bald Rick]

So much for the "summer timetable" speeding things up.

The summer timetable was to prevent training being stopped altogether. So compared to what would have happened without the summer timetable, 701 introduction is very definitely sped up.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Yes. After next week there's 11 weeks before Christmas, so if it's one diagram per week on average consistently (it's not at the moment) then I reckon it'll be around the end of January that the 455 turns are eliminated.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 17 Sep 2025 ==


OK, thanks for the info.

I had assumed the 455s would go at the Dec timetable change.

 

[Class15]

I had assumed the 455s would go at the Dec timetable change.

Unless we see short-forms or cancelled services, I don’t believe this is possible unless 701 introduction speeds up considerably.

 

[adc82140]

What does it matter really? The 701 introduction is finally happening, driver training is ongoing. It's not like the 455s are waiting to go to another home.

 

[Goldfish62]

What does it matter really? The 701 introduction is finally happening, driver training is ongoing. It's not like the 455s are waiting to go to another home.

Does anything that we discuss on these forums really matter? We're all here for a bit of chat about stuff we're interested in. Some of us happen to take an interest in how the 701 rollout is progressing.

 

[adc82140]

So do I. I'm glad the 701s are finally in traffic, and the clapped out 455s are going, but there seems to be a lot of needless antagonism about exactly when the last week will be. The industry certainly hasn't covered itself in glory with this programme, but some have been calling recent events a "joke" just because a week has been missed for a new diagram.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Unless we see short-forms or cancelled services, I don’t believe this is possible unless 701 introduction speeds up considerably.

Based on what verified information sorry?

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 18 Sep 2025 ==

So do I. I'm glad the 701s are finally in traffic, and the clapped out 455s are going, but there seems to be a lot of needless antagonism about exactly when the last week will be. The industry certainly hasn't covered itself in glory with this programme, but some have been calling recent events a "joke" just because a week has been missed for a new diagram.

And they’re welcome to if they want to. You’re also welcome to disagree.
It’s not antagonism, it’s taking an interest, or in my case - excitement - I cannot wait for the 455s to be gone.

 

[Class15]

Based on what verified information sorry?

Mathematics should be verifiable.

There are currently 14 pairs of 455s booked if I am correct.

There are under 3 months until the December timetable change, or, a quick check of the calendar suggests, 12 or 13 weeks. Currently a 701 diagram is replacing a 455 one roughly every week, if that.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

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