Class 701 'Aventra' trains for South Western Railway: progress updates

[OneTrackMinded]

Behold, the surprisingly very similar acceleration of the 345 and 701.

345 is about 204.73m long while the 701 is about 203.11m long.
(different carriage lengths hence why 9 cars on the 345 is slightly longer than 10 on the 701)

Keep in mind, one of these is on 25kV, while the other is on 750V Third Rail!

For those interested in the actual stats:
- The 701 clears its length in 22 seconds and 466 milliseconds. This means it's travelling at approximately 40.45mph.
- The 345 clears its length in 22 seconds. This means it's travelling at approximately 41.72mph.
- Difference of only 1.02mph..!

On average we're looking at anywhere from 1-2mph difference

(Red line represents starting point. 345's one is slightly too forgiving however the calculations themselves are correct)
(Before anyone asks, the 345 is at full throttle as it's on an ATO section)

 

[Goldfish62]

Behold, the surprisingly very similar acceleration of the 345 and 701.

345 is about 204.73m long while the 701 is about 203.11m long.
(different carriage lengths hence why 9 cars on the 345 is slightly longer than 10 on the 701)

Keep in mind, one of these is on 25kV, while the other is on 750V Third Rail!

For those interested in the actual stats:
- The 701 clears its length in 22 seconds and 15 milliseconds. This means it's travelling at approximately 41.26mph.
- The 345 clears its length in 22 seconds. This means it's travelling at approximately 41.64mph.
- Difference of only 0.36mph..!

(Red line represents starting point. 345's one is slightly too forgiving however the calculations themselves are correct)
(Before anyone asks, the 345 is at full throttle as it's on an ATO section)

It's certainly very impressive acceleration, which I've noticed when I've travelled on one.

 

[Stephen42]

Why were they soft launched?
Even if 458/4s have a shorter training period, they weren't soft launched, same w/707s.

Soft launches are unrelated to the training and more to do with the stock or methods of working. While lower reliability is expected during rollouts, if it's bad enough to cause chaos on a daily basis then the rollout would have to be paused. If training has already started then run the risk of training having to be repeated and delays the programme more as you only find out about the problems once enough training has taken place to start rollout.

Given the 701s have been plagued with issues during build/testing a soft launch to get confidence reliability is sufficient to proceed to rollout makes sense to me. (Ideally you avoid having a fleet with so many issues to start with, but that's another matter.) The change in methods of working for the 701s meant that the RMT at least wanted to see how it worked during the soft launch phase before signing off on the training programme for full introduction. Doing soft launch early gives time for software issues spotted to be rolled together into an updated version which can take months for safety critical software. The delay in agreeing the training with drivers means the launch phase has probably carried on far longer than originally intended.

 

[norbitonflyer]

The delay in agreeing the training with drivers means the launch phase has probably carried on far longer than originally intended.

That's quite an understatement, given the entire fleet waas supposed to have been in service by the end of 2019. The TPE Mark 5s (and three Prime Ministers, and two Olympiads) have come and gone in that time

 

[DelW]

That's quite an understatement, given the entire fleet waas supposed to have been in service by the end of 2019. The TPE Mark 5s (and three Prime Ministers, and two Olympiads) have come and gone in that time

It's competing (in the understatement stakes) with the same author's earlier post (9872):

In many ways the rollout of the 701s hasn't started yet. The soft launch started before agreement of the driver or guard training for the main introduction into service. With standard driver training only starting recently this is more like the period before the first 707s were introduced. It's obviously not a model example of a rollout and once it actually gets going I'd still expect it to be relatively slow.

(My emboldening) - it's about as far from a "model example" as it could possibly be.

Are the 701s the most delayed service introduction ever on British railways? I can't think of a worse example, but there may be some I haven't thought of. As far back as the Modernisation Plan I think there were some problematic fleet introductions.

 

[Merle Haggard]

It's competing (in the understatement stakes) with the same author's earlier post (9872):

(My emboldening)

Are the 701s the most delayed service introduction ever on British railways? I can't think of a worse example, but there may be some I haven't thought of. As far back as the Modernisation Plan I think there were some problematic fleet introductions.

And, when that happened, there was a national media campaign centred on the alleged incompetence of the nationalised industry, British Railways - e.g. the N.B.L. type 2s under tarpaulins at Stratford were the target of the Daily Telegraph over a long period.

What both events have in common is that it was private builders that found difficulty in making something that actually worked. In the old case I mention the result of this incapability was the bankruptcy of N.B.L. because of the level of rectification work under warranty. In the current case, the builder must have 'deep pockets'.

But there's not been much reporting by the investigative media of the current problems, on a larger scale than ever before, for some reason...

 

[Sun Chariot]

Are the 701s the most delayed service introduction ever on British railways? I can't think of a worse example, but there may be some I haven't thought of. As far back as the Modernisation Plan I think there were some problematic fleet inintroductions.

Drifting very OT I've two pre Nationalisation candidates:

The only "fleet" example that springs to mind, is LNER 6701 / 6000 (the forerunner of EM1 class 76).
Taken into LNER traffic Sept 1941, stored a month later, until the autumn of 1947 and then shipped to the Netherlands. It returned to the UK in February 1952 and only then did it enter its intended service.

LNER Encyclopedia: The LNER Electric Bo-Bo Class EM1 (BR Class 76) Locomotives

Describes the LNER Electric Bo-Bo Class EM1 (BR Class 76) Locomotives

www.lner.info

The "white elephant" Vincent Raven's NER 2-Co-2 Number 13; although it was just a single loco, not an entire planned fleet.
Built 1922, withdrawn 1950 and not a single revenue earning mile run.

LNER Encyclopedia: The NER Electric 2-Co-2 Class EE1 Locomotive No. 13

Describes the NER Electric 2-Co-2 Class EE1 Locomotive No. 13

www.lner.info

 

[norbitonflyer]

Drifting very OT I've two pre Nationalisation candidates:

The only "fleet" example that springs to mind, is LNER 6701 / 6000 (the forerunner of EM1 class 76).
Taken into LNER traffic Sept 1941, stored a month later, until the autumn of 1947 and then shipped to the Netherlands. It returned to the UK in February 1952 and only then did it enter its intended service.

LNER Encyclopedia: The LNER Electric Bo-Bo Class EM1 (BR Class 76) Locomotives

Describes the LNER Electric Bo-Bo Class EM1 (BR Class 76) Locomotives

www.lner.info

The "white elephant" Vincent Raven's NER 2-Co-2 Number 13; although it was just a single loco, not an entire planned fleet.
Built 1922, withdrawn 1950 and not a single revenue earning mile run.

LNER Encyclopedia: The NER Electric 2-Co-2 Class EE1 Locomotive No. 13

Describes the NER Electric 2-Co-2 Class EE1 Locomotive No. 13

www.lner.info

There was nothing wrong with either locomotive as far as I am aware. The problem was that the electrification programmes they were built for were delayed (by WW2) or failed to materialise (because of a change of company policy after the company that built it was merged with others in the 1923 "Grouping").

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 13 Aug 2024 ==

And, when that happened, there was a national media campaign centred on the alleged incompetence of the nationalised industry, British Railways - e.g. the N.B.L. type 2s under tarpaulins at Stratford were the target of the Daily Telegraph over a long period.

What both events have in common is that it was private builders that found difficulty in making something that actually worked. In the old case I mention the result of this incapability was the bankruptcy of N.B.L. because of the level of rectification work under warranty. In the current case, the builder must have 'deep pockets'.

But there's not been much reporting by the investigative media of the current problems, on a larger scale than ever before, for some reason...

Yes, but NBL's Type 2s (classes 21 and 22) - and their Type 1s (class 16), Type 4s (classes 41 and 43), and the AL4s (class 84), did at least enter service, albeit most lasted less than ten years.
There were examples from other manufacturers - the entire fleets of classes 23, 28 and 30 had to be rebuilt (the latter to become class 31) within a few years of entering service, although it was only enough to save the latter, the other two also being extinct within a decade.

 

[3973EXL]

701511? 701509

Realtime Trains | 5Q85 0930 Eastleigh Trsmd to Long Marston | 13/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q85 0930 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Long Marston on 13/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

 

[800001]

701511? 701509

Realtime Trains | 5Q85 0930 Eastleigh Trsmd to Long Marston | 13/08/2024

Real-time train running information for 5Q85 0930 departure from Eastleigh Trsmd to Long Marston on 13/08/2024. From Realtime Trains, an independent source of train running info for Great Britain.

www.realtimetrains.co.uk

Yes, 701509 and 701511.

 

[3973EXL]

Yes, 701509 and 701511.

Also reported as 701512/509

511 17/11/23 to Bicester Chris Sanders on flickr

SWR Class 701/5's 701511 and at the front 701507 at Reading

South Western Railway Class 701/5's 701511 and 701507 are being moved as 5Q68 1109 Willesden S.W.S. to Bicester MOD GBRf storage movement, hauled by out of sight Class 47/7 47739. 17th November 2023.

www.flickr.com

 

[wickham]

Does anyone know what has come back on the late running Long Marston to Eastleigh move today (Tuesday 13/08) ?

 

[Gordonman]

Does anyone know what has come back on the late running Long Marston to Eastleigh move today (Tuesday 13/08) ?

701023

 

[NSEWonderer]

I assume all the 701 units that were testing AC capabilities with a pantograph have since had those removed completely?

I do wonder why unlike the 707s they didn't test it on actual uk rail infrastructure like the Thameslink Core to see how it would behave with Overhead power outside of a closed test track?

 

[norbitonflyer]

I do wonder why unlike the 707s they didn't test it on actual uk rail infrastructure like the Thameslink Core to see how it would behave with Overhead power outside of a closed test track?

Probably because of the disruption that would be caused to services if the tests revealed a problem.

 

[Goldfish62]

I assume all the 701 units that were testing AC capabilities with a pantograph have since had those removed completely?

I do wonder why unlike the 707s they didn't test it on actual uk rail infrastructure like the Thameslink Core to see how it would behave with Overhead power outside of a closed test track?

Because Siemens didn't have a readily available test track in the UK? Just guessing.

 

[Dan15812]

Sorry for this likely being mentioned a number of times before, could anyone tell me the number of Class 701 diagrams at present?

 

[swtrains]

Sorry for this likely being mentioned a number of times before, could anyone tell me the number of Class 701 diagrams at present?

There is only 1 diagram at the moment, which has ONLY ever run on weekdays since the "soft launch" (most recently being done by 701039):

5U09 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs - Waterloo
2U09 Waterloo - Windsor
2U16 Windsor - Waterloo
2U19 Waterloo - Windsor
2U26 Windsor - Waterloo
5Y89 Waterloo - Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs
5R53 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs - Waterloo
2R53 Waterloo - Waterloo
5Y90 Waterloo - Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs

 

[Dan15812]

There is only 1 diagram at the moment (most recently being done by 701039):
5U09 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs - Waterloo
2U09 Waterloo - Windsor
2U16 Windsor - Waterloo
2U19 Waterloo - Windsor
2U26 Windsor - Waterloo
5Y89 Waterloo - Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs
5R53 Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs - Waterloo
2R53 Waterloo - Waterloo
5Y90 Waterloo - Wimbledon Park Depot Sdgs

Thank you so much.

 

[Andy1673]

Sorry for my very stupid question but will we see slightly more than one diagram of 701s in the nearest future? May be form december new timetable?

 

[Waterlemon]

Sorry for my very stupid question but will we see slightly more than one diagram of 701s in the nearest future? May be form december new timetable?

Sooner than that

 

[GEC465]

deleted

 

[Andy1673]

Sooner than that

Thanks. Wow if it will be sooner

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Thanks. Wow if it will be sooner

I should think so, really.

 

[norbitonflyer]

701036 showing on RTT today. Its first outing for nearly two months, and the first time this month that any unit except 039 has been used.

 

[WWTownEnth]

I gather the introduction will see Windsor, then Reading, then Hounslow loop services get 701s in that order. Does anynone know how many trained drivers and how many units will be required for each of these three routes to complete the transfer?

 

[TEW]

More Windsor services first, then Shepperton next. Reading is not one of the early routes to see 701s anymore.

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Why do Shepperton get preferential treatment? The 707s were taken off the Windsor services and put on the Shepperton line long before they were due to be replaced. Who lives on the Shepperton line with all the influence?

 

[swr444]

Why do Shepperton get preferential treatment? The 707s were taken off the Windsor services and put on the Shepperton line long before they were due to be replaced. Who lives on the Shepperton line with all the influence?

It’s mainly to do with the awful timetable on that line with minimal turnaround times at Waterloo and shepperton, and tight timings at each station. 707 and 701s have better acceleration and quicker doors which helps with dwell times.

 

[swtrains]

It’s mainly to do with the awful timetable on that line with minimal turnaround times at Waterloo and shepperton, and tight timings at each station. 707 and 701s have better acceleration and quicker doors which helps with dwell times.

Why were the 707s taken off the Shepperton line then?