YorkshireBear
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Haven't Northern said no expensive refurbs for them?
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Class 700's and 319's
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Manchester77
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Think it was mentioned they're just planning a refresh, seems to make sense since there's no guarantee they'll have the franchise in 2 years time. I'd imagine it'll be new moquette and livery.
Class377/5
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Is that official as so far I've just seen rumor (and some of it worrying).
61653 HTAFC
Veteran Member
It'd presumably be do-able, but those 5-car units you'd end up with would only be as powerful as the 3&4-car units (one motor coach) but with the extra weight of another trailer- this would affect performance a fair bit, especially in the autumn!
They struggle a lot with poor rails as it is. Anything that makes that worse is a BAD idea!
mind you I've only experienced them on 3rd rails, not sure if they cope better on OHLE?
cjmillsnun
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Given the state of the 319s they really need a full refurb.
The look of the Class 700's has been revealed. 2+1 Seating!!
http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/7368
http://www.london-se1.co.uk/news/view/7368
Those seats really dont look comfortable, they dont even have any arm rests!
Although I do hope I can try out the 'Lounge' seating on some of the ex southern ones before it disappears...
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
Trains with a high amount of standing space was expected.
They look like German S-Bahn standard, which should have been expected from Siemens given what type of seating the 'regional' 185s and 350/4s have.
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In first class, which I see has the yellow stripe on the outside - which is nice.
Actually, that's a point; does the refreshed 365 now have that?
northwichcat
Veteran Member
No that's standard.
First Class has larger seats in 2+2 formation with tables as shown on the Siemens site: http://www.siemens.co.uk/pool/news_press/news_archive/2014/first-class.jpg
Standard also has 2+2 seating:
http://www.siemens.co.uk/pool/news_press/news_archive/2014/standard-class-2.jpg
Except in the 'accessible area':
http://www.siemens.co.uk/pool/news_press/news_archive/2014/wheelchair-area.jpg
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Wow they make a 377/6 look luxury by comparison, this the trouble with Thameslink, on the one hand it has to function as a metro style railway but on the other their are some quite long runs which are going to be not very comfortable by the looks of that.
The situation with the 319's and a light refurb is totally unacceptable, either a major refurb has to be funded by Daft or its at least a condition of the next franchise.
Was it not indicated by government when these electrification scheme's were announced that they would get a major refurb
Maximum stink need to be kicked up if a light refurb only.
The situation with the 319's and a light refurb is totally unacceptable, either a major refurb has to be funded by Daft or its at least a condition of the next franchise.
Was it not indicated by government when these electrification scheme's were announced that they would get a major refurb
Maximum stink need to be kicked up if a light refurb only.
JamesRowden
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I suspected that the 2+1 section was for 'inclusive design' reasons.
Xenophon PCDGS
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If the units need the correct level of refurbishment to counter any current shortcomings, wherever they are known to be, then this is exactly what should be done. Let us consider the needs of the comfort of the travelling public rather than operational paucity of investment. It only needs for Northern to be mentioned to bring out the saying.. "Oh, its only Northern, any old rubbish will do for them as we have already made their passengers inured to the Pacer standard of rail travel".
Just "tarting-up" elderly EMU brings the old adage "mutton dressed as lamb" to mind
Manchester77
Established Member
I wouldn't call a 319 an elderly EMU! And I'd rather have the 319s running up here and the go a refurbishment when there's slack in the electric fleet than continue running all diesel so that the trains can get a face lift.
Perhaps it makes more sense to do the 319s once they're all on the move, not after a handful are moved?
I'd imagine that once everything is set up to do them, the company involved would want to have a regular supply - not receive things in dribs and drabs.
I'd imagine that once everything is set up to do them, the company involved would want to have a regular supply - not receive things in dribs and drabs.
asylumxl
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The 319s are 25 years old. Almost 26 soon.
Xenophon PCDGS
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What then would you call EMU of the age that these units are ? Do units have to be over 30 years of age to call them elderly ?
These units are nearer to 30 years of age than 20.
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northwichcat
Veteran Member
The first batch was built in 1987, which means they'll be having their 27th birthdays this year. The first day they entered passenger service is irrelevant.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Maybe they become elderly when they struggle to maintain their balance, which then means Pacers have always been elderly.
Have you been on a 319 lately they are clapped out dogs which need gutting and a completely new interior, new windows would be good as well so you might get a view instead of the current scratched windows and if they are going to last another 10 to 15 years a new traction package as well, of course you might say northern passengers are used to that, but that's not really an excuse.
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Class377/5
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If they go to Northern then they need a proper refurbishment.
Manchester77
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But considering that Northern need these EMUs to internally displace DMUs surely it is better to use them to displace DMUs allowing for strengthening and service expansion (tod chord) than having new infrastructure lay around doing nothing as the EMUs required for the displacements are being refurbished, while I agree that they need a refurbishment I have made it clear why I believe that they should enter service before going for a refurbishment: when Northern have more 319s and so more slack in the fleet allowing them to be release for refurbishment.
Xenophon PCDGS
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Are not DMU and EMU methods of passenger transportation rather than something to be viewed as operational niceties ?
cjmillsnun
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If you seriously knew the appalling state the 319s were in you would not be saying that. At a minimum they need a deep clean, work on bodyside corrosion, and a full interior refurb. The supposedly nicer ex SN ones are disgusting. In all honesty they shouldn't be in service at all in the condition they are in now.
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southern442
Established Member
This is the third new design after the 377/6 to use those horrible seats. Come on, they are not the only seat design in the world! There are others, most of which are a lot more comfortable. First class is also a far cry from the 319's. If only they still put thought into the interiors...
I think the 319/0's, /3's and /4's are in need of a major refurbishment as they are falling apart, however the /2's are in a better state and have a much nicer interior I think.
With the 350's, I think a good idea would be to cascade the 185's onto routes currently served by 170's, then take the 170's down south and convert them into 171's, as southern are looking to extend their Uckfield trains to 10 car.
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swt_passenger
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The 350s do not make any 185s available to free up any 170s for cascade elsewhere - your plan might be relevant after full TPE electrification, but in any case it has nothing whatsoever to do with 319s or 700s.
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starrymarkb
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I do like the LCD displays - which are the norm on Continental stock these days
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