Class 68 Progress, what's the latest?

[Kneedown]

No the driving cab of a 156 is miles better than a 150 which is miles better than a 142. 142s are absolute bobbins when it comes to the cab. The ONLY part of a 142 cab that is superior is the 2nd mans side, which is good news for instructors but not for drivers. Apart from that they are inferior in every way possible. The drivers side is uncomfortable and extremely cramped. You have to slide the seat backwards then forwards just to get in and out of the seat, thats what I call cramped. The cab side windows are bus windows.

We'll have to disagree on that one then.
On the few occasions i've been up front on a 142 i've found the cab to be quite bright with far superior views of the surroundings and line ahead than the dark, pigeonhole effect of a 156, which no matter what i do with the seat, still find it hard to remain comfortable when driving. I find the layout of gauges and controls better in the 142 as well.
I also found 150's far superior to 156's in every way and miss driving them a lot.
It's all down to individual preference i suppose.

 

[The Citadel]

150/1 with the separate crew door is great.

 

[Beveridges]

On the few occasions i've been up front on a 142 i've found the cab to be quite bright with far superior views of the surroundings and line ahead than the dark, pigeonhole effect of a 156, which no matter what i do with the seat, still find it hard to remain comfortable when driving. I find the layout of gauges and controls better in the 142 as well.

you'll be in the minority on that one, as they are hated over here!

GB bigger than DRS. FACT.

No they aren't. Like I said, how can a coal train travelling from Doncaster to Ferrybridge (17 mile) be compared with a nuclear flask train travelling from Dungeness to Sellafield (c 400 mile) ? Putting the value of goods aside, compare the resource requirements - locomotive hours, train crew hours - of the former with the latter?


See how the 40 trains vs 140 trains argument is falling to pieces, even though in "leaf fall" DRS will be running a *LOT* more than 40 trains!

You make it sound like their entire fleet is 37's/47's.

The 37's are exceptional machines with solid construction - with "some" still working after 50+ years, and expected to be here for a long time yet.

You did not mention that the rest of the fleet includes 66's & 92's. Exactly the same as what GBRF are using.

 

[captainbigun]

You're utterly deluded.

You seem not to comprehend that the flask traffic is DRS' through their being a subsidiary of the NDA. Regardless GB are still the bigger outfit, but you believe what you want.

 

[CosherB]

DRS don't have dabs on any Class 92's - 16 are operated by GBRf while the other 30 are with Beveridges beloved DBS. Any Class 92's that DRS use would be via a sub-lease. In an ideal world, DRS would be better served by having Class 90's, but as DBS owns 24 of them that'll never happen.

And let's face it, the Class 68 will decimate DRS's 47 fleet

 

[Rhydgaled]

See how the 40 trains vs 140 trains argument is falling to pieces, even though in "leaf fall" DRS will be running a *LOT* more than 40 trains!

Right. Let's try to come up with a fair comparison to determine which operator is bigger. How about average mileage operated in a year, including passenger (inc. charter, thunderbird and ECS moves), freight and rail-head-treatment but excluding light engine movements? Does anyone actually have the figures necessary to answer that though, I certainly don't.

 

[al.currie93]

Well put FM.

I've still not worked out what happens if they don't win any of the up coming tenders for passenger work. The 88s are clearly aimed at the sleeper, but they aren't the only party bidding, there's no guarantee they'll win! In fact I am not even sure the 88s would arrive for the start of that contract.

One minute, what sleeper service is that?? Sorry for bringing it all off topic, ha!

 

[HSTEd]

The 88s are useless for sleeper traffic.
Watching them climb over the Highlands with a rake under tow would be rather.... amusing.

I doubt they would do much better on the Cornish sleeper...

They are more likely to replace the Class 20s on light duties like RHTT and Flasks, and gain experience with modern electrodiesels before we get a proper CoCo heavy freight job.

 

[Loki]

The 88s are useless for sleeper traffic.
Watching them climb over the Highlands with a rake under tow would be rather.... amusing.

I doubt they would do much better on the Cornish sleeper...

They are more likely to replace the Class 20s on light duties like RHTT and Flasks, and gain experience with modern electrodiesels before we get a proper CoCo heavy freight job.

With 4MW under wires 88 is surely not a light loco. Keep in mind it will also have multiple workings. Under diesel the loco is more useful as a shunter than a freight loco but overall is should be able to handle intermodals including shunting the wagons.

 

[captainbigun]

With 4MW under wires 88 is surely not a light loco. Keep in mind it will also have multiple workings. Under diesel the loco is more useful as a shunter than a freight loco but overall is should be able to handle intermodals including shunting the wagons.

5MW under the wire. It's basically an up to date 90, so it'll do the sleeper OK.

Whether the axle weight will be sensible remains to be seen.

 

[Beveridges]

I'm sure the 88s were ordered more with the "Intermodals" in mind than the Sleepers. Another obvious one is the flask traffic. A quick blast up the main line on electric power, then stagger along the branch on type 1 power to finish the trip off.

The 68s will be general purpose locomotives that will probably be used on everything, but theres no way they have ordered enough of them to see off the classic fleet, especially considering that they will also be almost certainly replacing some of the 66s. There is no doubt that some of the traffic 66s currently handle will go to 68. Make no mistake about it.
The 68s are said to be capable of single headedly dealing with any train DRS currently run. A bit like a more up to date 47 but with more power.

 

[fowler9]

I'm sure the 88s were ordered more with the "Intermodals" in mind than the Sleepers. Another obvious one is the flask traffic. A quick blast up the main line on electric power, then stagger along the branch on type 1 power to finish the trip off.

The 68s will be general purpose locomotives that will probably be used on everything, but theres no way they have ordered enough of them to see off the classic fleet, especially considering that they will also be almost certainly replacing some of the 66s. There is no doubt that some of the traffic 66s currently handle will go to 68. Make no mistake about it.
The 68s are said to be capable of single headedly dealing with any train DRS currently run. A bit like a more up to date 47 but with more power.

A 47with more power and worse looks. Just had to get that in.

 

[patstonuk]

I'm sure the 88s were ordered more with the "Intermodals" in mind than the Sleepers. Another obvious one is the flask traffic. A quick blast up the main line on electric power, then stagger along the branch on type 1 power to finish the trip off.

I'm not sure that "quick blast" is the right phrase given those nukes are Class 6.

5MW under the wire. It's basically an up to date 90, so it'll do the sleeper OK.

Whether the axle weight will be sensible remains to be seen.

I believe the axle loadings are 'designed in' to increase adhesive weight.

 

[HSTEd]

It is annoying, a CoCo could probably manage type 3 or even type 4 power under diesel.

Such a locomotive could eventually replace pretty much all freight operations.

 

[Loki]

It is annoying, a CoCo could probably manage type 3 or even type 4 power under diesel.

Such a locomotive could eventually replace pretty much all freight operations.

That's actually quite a nice topic for discussion. With this much electrification on the pipeline you would expect that most new locos would be CoCo electro-diesels but both Colas and GBRF have recently bought more diesels. Price? Operational costs? Something else?

 

[cj_1985]

That's actually quite a nice topic for discussion. With this much electrification on the pipeline you would expect that most new locos would be CoCo electro-diesels but both Colas and GBRF have recently bought more diesels. Price? Operational costs? Something else?

Operational concerns I would think....
While we (as a country) have plans for electrifying the MML, GWML and eventually the Transpenine route, for the time being there are very few flows where you can use an AC loco end to end... for example a good few services from Felixstowe are routed cross country and away from the wires for a good chunk of the total route length, changing locos on such floods would add additional costs in the form of extra locos and shunters, not to mention the extra time for any loco swap and brake tests.

For the time being I think GBRf and Colas have made the right operational call with regards to their recent purchases, that being said GB do have 3 regular flows for class 92 haulage...

In a few years maybe the situation will be different, but not enough of the intermodal terminals are connected to the existing AC network at the moment to justify purchasing new AC locos, DRS are in a different situation, they need AC locos for intermodal and potentially for passenger work... even then, as has been said before its a big gamble

 

[Sunbird24]

Let me clarify one point here, DRS are not purchasing either the class 68 or 88 directly. Both classes are being financed by Beacon Rail leasing who will effectively be the owners and in the event of any default by DRS would be free to lease them to other operators if required.
The DRS plan is to use the 68s as replacements for class 47 and the 88s as replacement for class 92.
Sources: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-electro-diesel-locomotives-from-vossloh.html
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...na-unveils-direct-rail-services-class-68.html

 

[Photohunter71]

So I reckon by that,then the 47's are on ever diminishing borrowed time?

 

[The Citadel]

Let me clarify one point here, DRS are not purchasing either the class 68 or 88 directly. Both classes are being financed by Beacon Rail leasing who will effectively be the owners and in the event of any default by DRS would be free to lease them to other operators if required.
The DRS plan is to use the 68s as replacements for class 47 and the 88s as replacement for class 92.
Sources: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...-electro-diesel-locomotives-from-vossloh.html
http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...na-unveils-direct-rail-services-class-68.html

Nah, 47's don't drag boxes around.

 

[Beveridges]

Leasing means 24 hour use to justify costs so these are going to have to be used on regular, steady flows to pay for themselves, not the "as required" work associated with the DRS 47s.
For this reason I expect them to appear primarily on the Intermodals. I reckon the only loco class that would expect to be on "borrowed time" with DRS is the 66.

 

[159220]

I came across this image, thought to share the link. Shows the differences between the Eurolight and the UKLight

http://www.mainlinediesels.net/index.php?nav=1000001&file=vl_68001_51&action=image

 

[Beveridges]

Eurolight looks better

 

[Monty]

Leasing means 24 hour use to justify costs so these are going to have to be used on regular, steady flows to pay for themselves, not the "as required" work associated with the DRS 47s.
For this reason I expect them to appear primarily on the Intermodals. I reckon the only loco class that would expect to be on "borrowed time" with DRS is the 66.

This is my thinking, DRS have been gradually reducing their 66 fleet over the past five years or so. My money is for the 66s to go completely before any real effort is made to replace the 47s.

 

[Katada]

As a graphic designer, I contacted DRS a few months ago stating their brand and designs were outdated and that I could provide them with graphics for a relatively low cost.

They take my advice then use a different graphic design company. They pay to have their logo slightly altered and to have a poor website created along with a new livery which is about 10 years out of date.

 

[the sniper]

As a graphic designer, I contacted DRS a few months ago stating their brand and designs were outdated and that I could provide them with graphics for a relatively low cost.

They take my advice then use a different graphic design company. They pay to have their logo slightly altered and to have a poor website created along with a new livery which is about 10 years out of date.

The swine's... :roll:

 

[fowler9]

Eurolight looks better

Agreed. It just looks a less fussy design. The UKlight looks better in that white livery from certain angles. All personal taste though so I'm not saying I'm right or anything.

 

[Sunbird24]

Agreed. It just looks a less fussy design. The UKlight looks better in that white livery from certain angles. All personal taste though so I'm not saying I'm right or anything.

I agree, the Eurolight looks better. The 68 looks like it has been "punched under the nose" and has lost the smooth curves either side of the windscreen.
Of course, there may be a valid reason for these changes such as internal installation of certain equipment which needs that little bit more space. In my career with aircraft it was often the case that extrusions had to be made to fit certain bits of equipment which were not in existance when the design was first made and many aircraft acquired bulges over time which did not exist on the prototype. Who knows what else may appear following the testing at Velim!

 

[route:oxford]

As a graphic designer, I contacted DRS a few months ago stating their brand and designs were outdated and that I could provide them with graphics for a relatively low cost.

They take my advice then use a different graphic design company. They pay to have their logo slightly altered and to have a poor website created along with a new livery which is about 10 years out of date.

When people knock on your front door and tell you they've noticed a problem with your roof and they can fix it straight away for a low cost...

Do you say...

"Yes mate, go straight ahead and fix it"

or

"Cheers for letting me know", then close the door and call your trusted specialist...

?

 

[Loki]

Hauling some heavy freight on trials (from mainlinediesels).

 

[The Citadel]

2000t plus rheo brake on the euro light.