Class 66(?) Derailment, removed/plain lined points...?

[Robinson102]

Hi All,

I have this vague memory of what I believe may have been a Class 66, running off the end of a loop somewhere - where the right loop rail/left mainline cross rail part of the points had been removed - and therefore dropping onto the sleepers between the rails of the main line.

However, I can't for the life of me remember where or when this happened (or which loco it was, for that matter), and Googling is bringing up no useful results.

So I figured it might be worthwhile asking on here, in case anyone might be able to remember this happening, or which locomotive it happened to?

Thanks

Robinson102

 

[Far north 37]

Hi All,

I have this vague memory of what I believe may have been a Class 66, running off the end of a loop somewhere - where the right loop rail/left mainline cross rail part of the points had been removed - and therefore dropping onto the sleepers between the rails of the main line.

However, I can't for the life of me remember where or when this happened (or which loco it was, for that matter), and Googling is bringing up no useful results.

So I figured it might be worthwhile asking on here, in case anyone might be able to remember this happening, or which locomotive it happened to?

Thanks

Robinson102

66048 ran through the trap points at carrbridge on the highland main after been unable to stop on descending schlod summit.
It ended up going through some trees and into somebody's garden.
Its the only incident that sounds similar that i can remember.

 

[Highlandspring]

East Somerset Jn in November 2008? Although that was a pair of 59s on a set of traps...

https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/derailment-of-two-locomotives-at-east-somerset-junction

https://assets.publishing.service.g...169/R282009_091110_East_Somerset_Junction.pdf

 

[Far north 37]

Yes remember that too carrbridge was the only one i could remember that involved a 66 although a class 59 could easily be mistaken for a 66.

 

[Highlandspring]

The only recent incidents I can remember involving S&C that had been physically plain lined or had crossings removed resulting in derailment were a class 91 at Kings Cross in 2003 and a freight in the Sheffield area (Brightside?) around 2008ish, though I can only vaguely recall the latter.

 

[Robinson102]

The only recent incidents I can remember involving S&C that had been physically plain lined or had crossings removed resulting in derailment were a class 91 at Kings Cross in 2003 and a freight in the Sheffield area (Brightside?) around 2008ish, though I can only vaguely recall the latter.

As I'm from Sheffield myself, this one in the Sheffield/Brightside area could well be the one I'm thinking of.

All I can say at this point is that it was definitely points which had been 'plain lined', as opposed to catch points or broken rail etc... However, I can't be 100% sure it was a 66, I just believe it was.

I shall have to look through my Railways Illustrated mags, I'm sure I've seen a picture of the incident somewhere (to prompt this vague memory in the first place).

 

[The Lad]

Try the RAIB reports, I think there has been one fairly recently, may not be class 66 though.

 

[Robinson102]

Try the RAIB reports, I think there has been one fairly recently, may not be class 66 though.

I shall have a look, thanks

 

[richieb1971]

http://railwayherald.com/uknews/wcrc-47-damaged-in-manchester

This is the best I can come up with.

Class 47500 on a WCRC move near Salford.

 

[edwin_m]

The WCRC one was a derailment due to flange climb on a curve that should probably have had a check rail. I don't recall any incidents of trains derailing on points that had been plain-lined.

 

[hwl]

Westbury there

The WCRC one was a derailment due to flange climb on a curve that should probably have had a check rail. I don't recall any incidents of trains derailing on points that had been plain-lined.

Westbury stone wagons - recent RAIB report?

 

[edwin_m]

Westbury there

Westbury stone wagons - recent RAIB report?

Yes, that was a set of points that had been plain lined and perhaps was what the OP was thinking of. It wasn't a case of the train trying to go over a piece of track that had been removed, more that the geometry and maintenance was poor as an indirect result of the track having previously been a turnout.

 

[Muzer]

Recently there was another incident at East Somertset Jn with a train hauled by a 59 (again, similar to a 66). It indeed happened on a set of points that had been plainlined along the diverging (reverse) route, creating a non-standard alignment. RAIB report. Perhaps this is what OP is thinking of?

 

[berwicksfinest]

there was an incident a while back when a 66 and redlands train ran out of the end of Melton Mowbray up goods loop after a SPAD and was derailed by catch points

 

[Far north 37]

there was an incident a while back when a 66 and redlands train ran out of the end of Melton Mowbray up goods loop after a SPAD and was derailed by catch points

The driver had fallen asleep through fatigue iirc

 

[Far north 37]

The WCRC one was a derailment due to flange climb on a curve that should probably have had a check rail. I don't recall any incidents of trains derailing on points that had been plain-lined.

Think that incident was due to wheel reprofiling not been carried out correctly.

 

[Bald Rick]

There was one on the West Anglia main line, either the Down Loop near Whittlesford or the up loop at Gt Chesterford. About 2009/10, early one weekend morning. Three derailments that same day, including a 319 in the siding at St Albans. The breakdown crews had to be prioritised!

 

[Right Away]

I definitely remember watching a video on a safety day regarding an incident similar to the original post, although it was some time ago so my recollection is probably a little bit out. A crossing had been removed from the trailing end of an infrequently used crossover and plain lined because of a defect. The points were not disconnected or clipped and scotched for the normal movements. The controlling signalling centre were not aware of the alteration and the contractors who had undertaken the work were not aware of the consequences of their actions. The situation remained until some time later, when engineering work on one line necessitated a train to be routed via the crossover. The signaller set the route, the point motors moved the points, detection was obtained, the signal cleared and the trap was set.

 

[edwin_m]

Think that incident was due to wheel reprofiling not been carried out correctly.

It was a combination of factors: wheel profile at the limit of tolerance, flange lubricator not working and no check rail. Probably would not have derailed if only two of the three had happened.

 

[37057]

Think that incident was due to wheel reprofiling not been carried out correctly.

Why would you make things up when there's a report published about it?

 

[Far north 37]

Whos made anything up im sure if you read the report it was one of the major factors

 

[37057]

Whos made anything up im sure if you read the report it was one of the major factors

Surface finish was marginally more course than specified but that's certainly not a major factor as you suggest.

Loco was fresh off the lathe therefore had dry wheels. That along with the condition of the rail, the lack of lubrication and lack of check rail created a condition for the flange to climb.

Your post was a bit unfair really.

 

[Far north 37]

Ok fair enough i didnt realise it wasnt the only factor but it states in the report one of the major causes was the wheel profiling not been done to the required standard so its a bit unfair to claim i was making things up also.

 

[37057]

Ok fair enough i didnt realise it wasnt the only factor but it states in the report one of the major causes was the wheel profiling not been done to the required standard so its a bit unfair to claim i was making things up also.

Nope you still don't get it......

 

[Far north 37]

Nope you still don't get it......

What am i not getting then since what i have said is in the report but seen as im obviously just making things up can you clarify further.

 

[37057]

What am i not getting then since what i have said is in the report but seen as im obviously just making things up can you clarify further.

For a start, if you actually read it yourself, you'll find that the words "major factor" are actually not used.

Wheels were turned to P1 profile, with the machined surface finish being slightly more course than specified, which isn't exactly by the book but isn't exactly going to derail a loco either (machined surface will soon fade especially with tread brakes). The quality of the work carried was not a "major factor" as you suggest.

It was the fact that the loco had re-profiled wheels which meant that the wheels had no previous lubrication and along with the condition of the rail and the lack of check rail fitted caused the derailment. Feel like I'm repeating myself now....

A wheel with a worn (but serviceable) wheel profile with a usual build up grease around the flange would have probably negotiated the curve okay, but what would you suggest? Not maintain wheels?

 

[Far north 37]

Ok you feel like your repeating it says the wheels were outwith the allowed tolerance when it was allowed to leave so it shouldnt have even have been able to leave the depot im saying nothing further on the matter as im repeating myself.

 

[Tomnick]

The derailment at Aldwarke Junction referred to here sounds like what the OP’s after.

The court heard that the accident happened after the empty coal train was diverted onto a stretch of track which had a rail missing.

Jarvis engineers had installed a straight piece of track as a replacement for a crossing until a new crossing could be made.

But they failed to lock out the points which let trains onto the section

 

[Robinson102]

The derailment at Aldwarke Junction referred to here sounds like what the OP’s after.

Indeed that definitely sounds like what I was thinking of... I shall try to find more detail on it - thank you.

 

[Ships]

Pretty sure the OP is thinking of the East Somerset jct incident. That's the only one that involved partial plain lining of S&C.