• Our new ticketing site is now live! Using either this or the original site (both powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

class 60s stored at Toton

Status
Not open for further replies.

Wyvern

Established Member
Joined
27 Oct 2009
Messages
1,573
If brought back into use would it be a a way of getting round EU emissions regulations?

Given that , as I believe, there are no suitable engines on the market that would fit in a loco of British gauge.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
8,329
I think that Ed Burkhart (or whatever his name was) hated anything British, or European for that matter!

No - I think he was just very over optimistic. He thought that EWS freight had potential for big growth, and thought that he would need 250 new locos (66s) to meet that growth and to replace the ageing classes 31, 37, 47 & 56. In the event, there was no massive growth, and with so many 66s available, all of class 58, and many Class 60 were left with no work.
 

RichmondCommu

Established Member
Joined
23 Feb 2010
Messages
6,906
Location
Richmond, London
No - I think he was just very over optimistic. He thought that EWS freight had potential for big growth, and thought that he would need 250 new locos (66s) to meet that growth and to replace the ageing classes 31, 37, 47 & 56. In the event, there was no massive growth, and with so many 66s available, all of class 58, and many Class 60 were left with no work.

I wonder if he also underestimated the level of competition for business from Freightliner and DRS etc.
 

al.currie93

Member
Joined
27 Jun 2013
Messages
381
No - I think he was just very over optimistic. He thought that EWS freight had potential for big growth, and thought that he would need 250 new locos (66s) to meet that growth and to replace the ageing classes 31, 37, 47 & 56. In the event, there was no massive growth, and with so many 66s available, all of class 58, and many Class 60 were left with no work.

A tad off topic, but what is actually happening with the Class 58s? I don't know of many (any?) being scrapped but none are in service here... they just seem to have dropped off the edge of the world...

I wonder if he also underestimated the level of competition for business from Freightliner and DRS etc.

Good point, I guess he practically had a monopoly on train freight in the mid to late 90s so it could have been overlooked. DRS and GBRf have come far as well!
 

Daz9284

Member
Joined
26 Sep 2014
Messages
229
Location
Sherburn in Elmet
When EWS was formed etc, Freighliner was only in the intermodal business and they didn't start Heavy Haul until around 2000 and that was mainly Network Rail infrastructure work.

DRS and GBRf weren't around at this point either. DRS is also government owned/funded.

About half a dozen 58's have been scrapped. The majority are stored in France/Spain after the building of the high speed lines.

Regards
Darryl
 

Bevan Price

Established Member
Joined
22 Apr 2010
Messages
8,329
A tad off topic, but what is actually happening with the Class 58s? I don't know of many (any?) being scrapped but none are in service here... they just seem to have dropped off the edge of the world...

A few have been scrapped (about 6 or 7, I think) - mostly those with lots of bits removed. Others were sent overseas for infrastructure-type jobs, and I think many remain in store in mainland Europe, whilst a few are stored at Toton.
 
Joined
14 Aug 2012
Messages
1,070
Location
Stratford
it means a crucial part of the engine dug a hole through the engine block and tried to escape from the locomotive. That is quite catastrophic for the engine!

Same reason as with all of their wagons rotting away - you don’t flood the market for ferrous metals by dumping vast amounts of scrap into the system. It will drive the price down.

No but you would have thought they would still be scrapped in bits and drabs though

Is there any in preservation
 

bigdelboy

Member
Joined
9 Apr 2012
Messages
198
No but you would have thought they would still be scrapped in bits and drabs though

Is there any in preservation

There is a group cl60 who will aim to preserve one where possible.

......

My viewpoint on what happened was that EWS needed less when the 66's became available .... however a core of about 20 were really useful for particularly heavy trains on stiff gradients. So when a locomotive developed a major fault or needed overhaul another was simply used instead .. with a fair bit of robbing parts of peter to pay paul to keep the required group going.

however at some point in the late 2000's it was probably realised that strategy was going to result in none being available at all. And I also imagine at this time the replacement parts for the electronics (designed circa 1990) were probably becoming difficult to source. (Think of trying to buy a intel 386 processor today ... you'd probably have to goto ebay).

So an exercise was undergone to replace the electronics ....[ I think brush did this] (with a design which was more up to date and for which parts would be available). Some mechanical parts were also slated for renewal. These were tried out initially in a couple of locomotives.

The engines seem fundamentally quite reliable and supported.

So in the past couple of years the viability of maintaining the class for the next 10/15 years seems a lot brighter to how it would have been looking at 2005.

There's no point in putting new wine in old wineskins, so the class60 overhaul's (called by some the supertug) meant electronics, (rebuilt?) engine and various other mechanicals were done at the same time. Obviously that is an expensive overhaul; and DBS have so far done about the 20 or so they seem to need ( I think they only have 5 or less non overhauled ones running) as opposed to 15 or so overhauled ones ( I think they have two overhauled ones out of use one for defects and one for a collision).

.....

I think DBS seem to have generally sold Colas ones in reasonably good condition (when stopped). However Colas are getting giving them the overhaul treatment before entering service.

......

Most other candidates on the line are probably suitable candidates for the overhaul treatment as I suspect parts are now readily obtainable for the next few years. However the overhaul will not be cheap ... however the ongoing costs may well know be known from the hours clocked up by the overhauled locomotives.

.....

If the existing engines did not seem to be supported then replacing the engines with multiple gensets might have been attractive .... evidently not necessary.

.....

This post in essentially all my opinion reading this thread and from the tugtracker and cl60 websites.
 

tadhatter

Member
Joined
17 Jul 2012
Messages
172
Location
Rugby
Bigdelboy that sounds a fair and reasonable assessment.

As for the class 58s I understand that there are only 2 stored outside at Toton both clearly visible at the south end of the depot from the bridal path just off banks road.
 

Crawley Ben

Member
Joined
14 Jul 2011
Messages
549
Location
West Worthing
Bigdelboy that sounds a fair and reasonable assessment.

As for the class 58s I understand that there are only 2 stored outside at Toton both clearly visible at the south end of the depot from the bridal path just off banks road.

That sounds about right, as I remember seeing a couple of 58's dotted about when I was taken on an official visit to Toton in September of this year.

As for the 60's, I was fortunate enough to witness one of them inside the shed being overhauled. The amount of work & man hours being put in to the super 60 project is incredible it has to be said.

The visit to Toton was all authorised & 'above board' so to speak. To say it was an eye opener would be an understatement. Even saw a couple of GBRF 66's stabled there too as well between jobs at the time!

Ben
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top