Class 50's and the GWML

[Moog_1984]

No, Class 50s had an ETH rating of 61. Most other large diesels with ETH had a rating of 66. Even class 31/4s were 66, because they were used on ECS workings of aircon stock.

50s use (as do 37/4s now) a second , small DC generator driven by the main PU- This was probably not designed at a time when 66 was needed ( higher amps)

31/4s, aka Peds and ETHELs have a big part of their power output reserved for the ETH. Still shows how effective loco hauled power is versus modern "plastic" DMUs.

 

[D6975]

On the matter of 45v50, my experience was that 50s were better at accelerating, faster, but not very good at hill climbing. I once took a 50 out of Exeter St Davids on load 8 that only just managed to get up to Central. As we crested the top of the climb, the speed was considerably less than walking pace. I was half expecting it to stall completely and require assistance.

Likewise on the Lickey, I once went up behind 50007 on a Glas/ED service (load 13) and the driver called for the bankers. I asked at New St why he'd asked for them and he told me that the 50 had dropped a traction motor and was being very sluggish and he reckoned it wouldn't have made it up without assistance. The 37s were both dud unfortunately - the bankers were regularly used on the Cambrian on a Sat at the time.

 

[Schnellzug]

On the matter of 45v50, my experience was that 50s were better at accelerating, faster, but not very good at hill climbing. I once took a 50 out of Exeter St Davids on load 8 that only just managed to get up to Central. As we crested the top of the climb, the speed was considerably less than walking pace. I was half expecting it to stall completely and require assistance.

Likewise on the Lickey, I once went up behind 50007 on a Glas/ED service (load 13) and the driver called for the bankers. I asked at New St why he'd asked for them and he told me that the 50 had dropped a traction motor and was being very sluggish and he reckoned it wouldn't have made it up without assistance. The 37s were both dud unfortunately - the bankers were regularly used on the Cambrian on a Sat at the time.

Well, they routinely took 9 on Waterloo workings, and 12 or so regularly twixt N. Abbot & Plymouth. And i don't know if asking for a banker for 13 up the lickey was too sharmeful. Thouigh even there, they'd regulalry take 11 or 12 coach inter-regionals, and rarely need assistance.

 

[Martin nx]

I can remember having an early turn in our link at Old Oak where we would take the 03.25 paper train out of Paddington (with a 31) as far as Oxford and then work the early commuter with Mk2A's and quite often a 50 on it from Oxford to Paddington. We used to collect loco and stock from the carriage sidings north of the station and from what I remember (it was 1978 or so!) called at Radley, Culham ,Appleford, Reading and then cane it to Paddington to make sure we got a lift back on the van to Old Oak Common! Happy days.

 

[455driver]

I recall reading that the removal of the sanding and slow-speed equipment during the Doncaster refurbishment was one of the reasons why the Class 50/1 (50149) trial didn't lead to more conversions - it was going to cost to put this equipment back!

The funny thing is that the sandboxes are still there, the only thing done was a small plate welded over the filler caps.

Were 50s ever fitted with working sanders?
Every picture I have seen would say not and that includes them leaving VF when brand new.
If anyone says yes they were then can I have a (half decent) photo as proof please because I have yet to see one.

 

[50010 Monarch]

Well, they routinely took 9 on Waterloo workings, and 12 or so regularly twixt N. Abbot & Plymouth. And i don't know if asking for a banker for 13 up the lickey was too sharmeful. Thouigh even there, they'd regulalry take 11 or 12 coach inter-regionals, and rarely need assistance.

A Class 50 power unit will not develop full power when speed is falling (such as when climbing a gradient). This is one of the quirks of the design although I'm not an expert on the subject by any means.

Because of this I believe that the class developed a reputation as being poor climbing banks. I suppose the only people who can say whether this was actually the case are those who worked with them in main line service. As the post above states the 50's regularly worked load 13 IC services up the Lickey single handed (as did 47's & Peaks). As to which type of loco coped the best with this task then I don't know. There are lots of variables to take in to account such as loco condition, driving style, weather conditions etc.

All I will say is that a loco class deemed not fit to take 13 carriages up the Lickey unaided would never have been diagrammed for the task in the first place.

 

[Moog_1984]

A Class 50 power unit will not develop full power when speed is falling (such as when climbing a gradient). This is one of the quirks of the design although I'm not an expert on the subject by any means..

That'll be the KV10 power control and anti wheel slip control. A 37, 40 or DP2 prior to this would have slipped a few axels and got on with the job!

All I will say is that a loco class deemed not fit to take 13 carriages up the Lickey unaided would never have been diagrammed for the task in the first place.

I do think, once going 45s were pretty good on big loads up hill ( see earlier post in nostalgia) This may also be due to field diversion speeds vs EE locos. I guess 46s were even better!

 

[D6975]

Back in the period that I'm talking about, there were 2 load 13s per day up the Lickey and the sleeper (can't remember how long that was, but with those mk3 sleepers in the consist it was a heavy train). The sleeper was the only service booked to have assistance, regardless of motive power.
There were several other services that had the classic
'Banked if class 31' note attached to them in the WTT.
Nobody needs to be reminded how well 31s climbed hills I take it..
Especially the 31/4s, drivers used to turn the ETH off on uphill gradients.

 

[Old Hill Bank]

Back in the period that I'm talking about, there were 2 load 13s per day up the Lickey and the sleeper (can't remember how long that was, but with those mk3 sleepers in the consist it was a heavy train). The sleeper was the only service booked to have assistance, regardless of motive power.
There were several other services that had the classic
'Banked if class 31' note attached to them in the WTT.
Nobody needs to be reminded how well 31s climbed hills I take it..
Especially the 31/4s, drivers used to turn the ETH off on uphill gradients.

The sleeper was booked 15 from Bristol to Carstairs where the rear 7 would detach for Edinburgh and visa versa on the southbound.
It was always booked into platform five at New St due to it's length, when the sleepers became mk 3's it always had to run via the camp hill line as plat 5 could not cope with 15 and a loco at each end.
Forget it now platform five is much shortened by the creation of 4C.