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Class 47/57 conversions - a few queries

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Strathclyder

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I've had a few 57-related questions that have been nagging at me brain for a while. Most are likely easily answered, but I thought I'd throw them to this section of the forum as they're mostly historically-leaning (they concern the genesis of the class and their first 9-10 years; Freightliner withdrawing all the 57/0s by the end of 2007 is my cutoff point here) and not really concerned with the class as things presently stand in 2025 nor about their future (including any preservation prospects). And yes, I think the 57s qualify for a thread here as it's been nearly 28 years since the first of the FL rebuilds emerged from Brush lol

1: What was the process behind the selection of the donor 47s? Of course, overall condition was the biggest deciding factor, as I know of at least one 47/8 (47849) that was ultimately rejected due to structural issues - those issues being most often cited as improperly repaired accident damage thought to date back to the Eltham Well Hall crash in June 1972, as 849 (as D1630) was the loco involved in that accident; I saw one source years ago specifically mention a bent frame - being discovered during the strip-down process. I was wondering if anything else factored into the selection process.

2: Related to the above, were there any other 47s that were rejected from the programme for similar reasons as 849?

3: How many 47s did Freightliner originally plan to convert to 57s before deciding to go all in on brand-new 66s and capping their 57s at 12? Wikipedia says 25 were originally planned in the long-term, but it's Wikipedia lol

4: It's commonly cited that the traction alternator in the 57s is the same model as that used in the Class 56. My main query here is: were the ones used in the 57 rebuilds brand-new or reconditioned examples recovered from withdrawn 56s?

5: What container flows did FL most commonly use their 57s on? Did they ever make it up to Mossend/Coatbridge on occasion when circumstances called for it?

6: What diagrams was 57601 used on during it's time with FGW? I would assume it shared work with the remaining 47/8s at the time.

Those are all I can really think of for now, but if anyone else has similar queries, feel free to drop them here.
 
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Richard Scott

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Seeing as no-one has answered I'll try my limited knowledge and see if someone backs it up or disproves it.
For number 3, I believe up to 30 were planned but obviously never materialised with the 66s being ordered instead.
Number 4, I'm sure some of the 57/0s used alternators recovered from class 56s but when 57/3s and 57/6s were ordered the second hand supply had dried up and new alternators were built (to the same design?).
Number 6, I do remember seeing 57601 at Paddington mid afternoon on one occasion. Believe it might have been a Friday's only train to Plymouth or Penzance? Not sure if it was just used on this or used as part of the 47 pool and allocated to whichever train required it?
Hope that helps? May not be 100% accurate as all from memory.
 
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43096

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Number 6, I do remember seeing 57601 at Paddington mid afternoon on one occasion. Believe it might have been a Friday's only train to Plymouth or Penzance? Not sure if it was just used on this or used as part of the 47 pool and allocated to whichever train required it?
There was a period when FGW had additional loco-hauled workings in place on the Paddington - Exeter/Plymouth route. This was due to late delivery of the 180s, with HSTs being borrowed fromk those workings to resource the service uplift to Cardiff. 57601 was used in the pool with FGW's own Duffs - though I think it tended to have a regular diagram.
 

co-tr-paul

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I think all these questions are answered in Modern Locomotives Illustrated 182, Apr 2010 , The Class 57s.
Will take a peak if get time later.
 

Enmgy17

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6: What diagrams was 57601 used on during it's time with FGW? I would assume it shared work with the remaining 47/8s at the time.
Looking through the 2001-2002 Class One's, it appears 601 was used on a specific out and back diagram, but that varied by the timetable. I've listed them below, although any of these could (and were) subbed by 47's from the pool.

Summer 2001
FX Only

1A43 09:20 Plymouth - Paddington
1C50 15:42 Paddington - Exeter
5C50 18+57 MO / 19+23 MFX Exeter - Laira

Winter 2001
SX

1A28 06:30 Plymouth - Paddington
1C50 15:42 Paddington - Exeter
5C50 19+01 MO / 19+23 MX Exeter - Laira
SO
1C99 23:50 Paddington - Penzance (ex Plymouth)
SuO
1A99 22:00 Penzance - Paddington (to Plymouth)

Summer 2002
SX

1A34 07:30 Plymouth - Paddington
1C53 16:15 Paddington - Plymouth
SO
1C99 23:50 Paddington - Penzance (ex Plymouth)
SuO
1A99 22:00 Penzance - Paddington (to Plymouth)
 

Richard Scott

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Looking through the 2001-2002 Class One's, it appears 601 was used on a specific out and back diagram, but that varied by the timetable. I've listed them below, although any of these could (and were) subbed by 47's from the pool.

Summer 2001
FX Only

1A43 09:20 Plymouth - Paddington
1C50 15:42 Paddington - Exeter
5C50 18+57 MO / 19+23 MFX Exeter - Laira

Winter 2001
SX

1A28 06:30 Plymouth - Paddington
1C50 15:42 Paddington - Exeter
5C50 19+01 MO / 19+23 MX Exeter - Laira
SO
1C99 23:50 Paddington - Penzance (ex Plymouth)
SuO
1A99 22:00 Penzance - Paddington (to Plymouth)

Summer 2002
SX

1A34 07:30 Plymouth - Paddington
1C53 16:15 Paddington - Plymouth
SO
1C99 23:50 Paddington - Penzance (ex Plymouth)
SuO
1A99 22:00 Penzance - Paddington (to Plymouth)
Thought it was a Friday when I saw it so likely on 15.42 Exeter service? Thanks for info, had some vague recollection of this.
 

co-tr-paul

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4. Modified and refurbished from 56.
1 & 2. Selection was by Portrrbrook fleet engineers following striping of major components of Freightliner and Poterbook owned locos.
849 ( 303 ) was rejected as above and 844 ( 307 ) due to overall condition.
3. 25 is indeed correct.
5. All I know is regulars at Ipswich, Felixstowe, Leeds and Southampton.
6. As above firstly restricted due to driver knowledge before joining 47 pool.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

601 was used on Night Riviera from June 2001 until offlease Dec 03 when 57602-4 started being introduced.
 

HOOVER29

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Messages
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I've had a few 57-related questions that have been nagging at me brain for a while. Most are likely easily answered, but I thought I'd throw them to this section of the forum as they're mostly historically-leaning (they concern the genesis of the class and their first 9-10 years; Freightliner withdrawing all the 57/0s by the end of 2007 is my cutoff point here) and not really concerned with the class as things presently stand in 2025 nor about their future (including any preservation prospects). And yes, I think the 57s qualify for a thread here as it's been nearly 28 years since the first of the FL rebuilds emerged from Brush lol

1: What was the process behind the selection of the donor 47s? Of course, overall condition was the biggest deciding factor, as I know of at least one 47/8 (47849) that was ultimately rejected due to structural issues - those issues being most often cited as improperly repaired accident damage thought to date back to the Etham Well Hall crash in June 1972, as 849 (as D1630) was the loco involved in that accident; I saw one source years ago specifically mention a bent frame - being discovered during the strip-down process. I was wondering if anything else factored into the selection process.

2: Related to the above, were there any other 47s that were rejected from the programme for similar reasons as 849?

3: How many 47s did Freightliner originally plan to convert to 57s before deciding to go all in on brand-new 66s and capping their 57s at 12? Wikipedia says 25 were originally planned in the long-term, but it's Wikipedia lol

4: It's commonly cited that the traction alternator in the 57s is the same model as that used in the Class 56. My main query here is: were the ones used in the 57 rebuilds brand-new or reconditioned examples recovered from withdrawn 56s?

5: What container flows did FL most commonly use their 57s on? Did they ever make it up to Mossend/Coatbridge on occasion when circumstances called for it?

6: What diagrams was 57601 used on during it's time with FGW? I would assume it shared work with the remaining 47/8s at the time.

Those are all I can really think of for now, but if anyone else has similar queries, feel free to drop them here.
5, I recall seeing & photographing a fair few of them on Lawley Street workings at Water Orton & a few were on workings to Crewe from Southampton
 

Strathclyder

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Late reply, but thanks to all who have responded. I did think most of these were easily answered, but nice to have specific details either which way. :)
 
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