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Class 465 and 466 set for storage/scrap: possible uses for them in future?

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Class 466

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Apparently the Medway valley line doesn't permit 4-car Networkers anymore due to changes in safety protocol since they last ran passenger services on that line (although empty stock moves still happen on there, at least pre-Covid). Cuxton, and maybe also Halling, I heard would only fit a 4-car 465 if the rear cab was off the end of the platform, and Beltring station on a 4-car 375 has triggered automated announcements in the train about not alighting from the rear coach due to a short platform, suggesting that's even shorter.
Cuxton on the up is a very tight 4 cars, down is about 5 cars, Halling is fine. Beltring is tight but took 4 cars fine. 375 SDO is overly cautious (every station along there that has an SDO announcement - I know Wateringbury is another) is actually fine with the whole coach accommodated, it’s just better to be safe than sorry.
 
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Mikey C

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This obviously rules out 5/10 car 23m stock, unless Medway Valley and Bromley North remain Electrostar only.
I'm not sure 23m stock was ever an option anyway. Even the Javelins are 20m stock
 

D365

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There's no centralised Train Management System (TMS) on the 465/466's. There are stand alone "computers" for traction electronics control and diagnostics, OTMR, TPWS, PIS etc and Remote Condition Monitoring (RCM - which was retrofitted in the late 00's) but nothing that acts as a centralised TMS to tie it all together and be a single interface for drivers and maintainers as you'd have on more modern stock. It's all relays and contactors and wires with volts going down them on the Networker's.
Traction, diagnostics, PIS etc. is what I thought. Thanks for confirming.
 

hwl

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I'm not sure 23m stock was ever an option anyway. Even the Javelins are 20m stock
Correct 23m (or 24m with 720/730) isn't an option.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: ==

This obviously rules out 5/10 car 23m stock, unless Medway Valley and Bromley North remain Electrostar only.
23m stock won't make it into/out of Cannon Street without damage being a much bigger limitation!
Many of the other issues you highlight are related to lack of SDO / lack of onboard DOO cameras/monitors and positions of platform monitors.


20m with decent SDO and DOO camera /monitors is what is needed for SE.
 
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ScotGG

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But not the stations of the Catford loop or Chatham mainline, which networkers are also used on interchangeably. Capacity is not an issue at the moment, and likely not for the foreseeable future. There really is no need to spend goodness knows how much on a new fleet




Indeed. The 465/9s are so much better inside.
Agree there's no pressing desire right now. Though SE metro seems to be the runt of the litter, so if numbers do pick up sharply - and the many thousands of car-free homes continue to be built near stations - what's the odds the DfT are caught napping?

As for the 8-car lines, when new stock does get ordered it's wise to be 4 car units to ensure 8 and 12 cars for coming decades.

Looking at the overall picture, population growth doesn't look like it's going to slow. The supposed exodus last year now appears not to have happened. Even with reduced EU numbers the current govt still wants immigration and seeks it from Asia (Hong Kong etc) and Chinese students. A lot of that in London is focused in select areas. Southeast London is right at the top (see Lewisham for example) alongside Stratford (a number of improvements there) and Nine Elms (which has a new tube line). Crossrail only assists a small area around Woolwich. Little for Lewisham, Kidbrooke and others.

The homes are car-free, train is the best way to reach areas and developers are still laying out large bucks on central London office space.

What I expect will happen is govt will take a short term view and push for something on the cheap.
 

warwickshire

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CFRAIL

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466020 in the sidings at Gillingham, looking rather lonely. Could this one be next to go?
 

The_Train

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Slightly OT for this thread but can anyone confirm the status of the following please:

465906, 465915, 465927 & 465932
466006, 466011, 466018, 466030 & 466037

My records indicate all of these to be at Wabtec, Doncaster but I suspect that may be outdated info on most of these?
 

NSEFAN

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Slightly OT for this thread but can anyone confirm the status of the following please:

465906, 465915, 465927 & 465932
466006, 466011, 466018, 466030 & 466037

My records indicate all of these to be at Wabtec, Doncaster but I suspect that may be outdated info on most of these?
465915, 466011, 466018 and 466030 were observed in service on Monday.
 

Acey

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Keeping tabs here on this thread:
465004 - still with SE
465010 - still with SE
465017 - still with SE
465019 - still with SE

465236 - stored at Worksop
465245 - stored at Worksop
465246 - stored at Worksop

466004 - stored at Worksop
466016 - stored at Worksop
466024 - still with SE
466033 - still with SE
466043 - still with SE

'The Beckenham 3' - to return to Slade Green tomorrow (22/6):
466006
465247
465913
Doesn't seem that long ago they came into service ( taken from RAIL June 1993 ) yours truly at the controls !002.jpg
 

Class455

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Any idea why this thread has been moved into the “speculative ideas” board?
Anyway, 465919 and 465911 have been put to use on the same diagram for the past week for some reason, I’ve had it on 2F84 0737 ORP to CHX every day last week and this week too! Considering this circuit returns to Grove Park after the morning peak, are these two units earmarked for storage or are they just being kept on this diagram for maintenance reasons?
 

JammyJames08

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Some more networkers are off for storage at Worksop next week, metcam units. 241 and 244 Monday. 242 and 250 on Thursday. Credit to Williamsonjason88 on se gen.
 

JammyJames08

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This is what I have so far, the date the units went for storage and which ones…

17/06/21 465236 & 465246
21/06/21 466004, 466016 and 465245
24/06/21 465017 and 465019
28/06/21 465010, 466024 and 466043
05/07/21 465004 and 466010
 

brad465

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This is what I have so far, the date the units went for storage and which ones…

17/06/21 465236 & 465246
21/06/21 466004, 466016 and 465245
24/06/21 465017 and 465019
28/06/21 465010, 466024 and 466043
05/07/21 465004 and 466010

https://www.ukraillog.co.uk/442-466 - just stick "Worksop" or "Stored" into the search for the relevant table
Thank you both for these.

I notice looking at that link that the Beckenham units are still labelled as being in that siding, even though they moved on a long time ago now, and from a personal perspective I've seen 466006 in active service since then.
 

Mitchell Hurd

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Sorry if its been posted on here but what about some of the networker trailers being transferred to GWR for use in extending the 2-car 165's to 3 coaches and the 3-car 165 and 166 trains to 5 coaches?
 

43096

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That's the 365 trailers I think that are being transferred over
It's not. The plan was to use Class 465/2 and 465/9 trailers, as those sets are Angel owned like the GWR Class 165/166 fleet. The 365s are Eversholt owned.
 

brad465

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Sorry if its been posted on here but what about some of the networker trailers being transferred to GWR for use in extending the 2-car 165's to 3 coaches and the 3-car 165 and 166 trains to 5 coaches?
The plans from memory were for 465s, which if SE were prepared to release the Workshop units for Turbo extension they could in theory do that now for trialling at least. Presumably the power rating of the existing turbo engines would have to be increased and/or additional engines/batteries applied as Turbos have relatively poor acceleration as it is in their current formations.
 

Roast Veg

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The plans from memory were for 465s, which if SE were prepared to release the Workshop units for Turbo extension they could in theory do that now for trialling at least. Presumably the power rating of the existing turbo engines would have to be increased and/or additional engines/batteries applied as Turbos have relatively poor acceleration as it is in their current formations.
It depends on the hydroflex project, for which my understanding was that the increase in motive power part is distinct from any trailer vehicle addition. We'll likely hear about a turbo on test first.
 
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