Class 458/5

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Well the 458/5's are rebuilt 458's to resemble class 450's, so other than the transmission equipment you should not notice the difference...

But seriously, living not far from a station on the London Waterloo - Reading line, I have felt more comfortable on a train when it has been a class 450. Although, I must admit I can safely get to sleep as long s I have got a seat on a class 458, the 450s do feel more comfortable.



Thanks. It looked like a test run as there seemed to be no one on the train.

The 458/5s that I have been on are all 2x2 seating so are internaly different from the 450's 2x3 seating.

 

[Bigfoot]

Does it really matter? OHL must be a few years off yet.

It does in my opinion. I believe that children are the future.. Ahem!

In all seriousness what's to stop swt or successor ordering enough Desiro city 5 car and possibly 10 car fixed formations in a around 10 years time to replace all 455 456 and 458s. The 455+6 will be at deaths door and the 458 with pantos can move to somewhere with knitting and be put to good use. Leaving swt with ideal stock scenario, only 3 types of stock. Diesel, current Desiro and the cities. Although someone somewhere will mention crosstrail 2 but they will not replace all of the SWT suburban stock still a swt suburban requirement.

 

[swt_passenger]

It does in my opinion. I believe that children are the future.. Ahem!

In all seriousness what's to stop swt or successor ordering enough Desiro city 5 car and possibly 10 car fixed formations in a around 10 years time to replace all 455 456 and 458s.

Will be overtaken by transfer of routes to a different owner; If CR2 goes ahead SWT probably won't need to worry at all about replacing the 455/456, which will be at about end of their planned life. SWT's suburban area remaining routes will have the Desiro Cities, some of the 458s and some 450s, I think they will be able to lose all the 455s and 456s by then.

But the 458s, operating on the Reading route again by then, will probably still have at least another 15 years useful life in 10 years time, after all they are only 15 year old now...

 

[cjmillsnun]

It does in my opinion. I believe that children are the future.. Ahem!

In all seriousness what's to stop swt or successor ordering enough Desiro city 5 car and possibly 10 car fixed formations in a around 10 years time to replace all 455 456 and 458s. The 455+6 will be at deaths door and the 458 with pantos can move to somewhere with knitting and be put to good use. Leaving swt with ideal stock scenario, only 3 types of stock. Diesel, current Desiro and the cities. Although someone somewhere will mention crosstrail 2 but they will not replace all of the SWT suburban stock still a swt suburban requirement.

Only the ex 458/0s will have provision for Pantos and unlike Desiros it is meant to be hard to retrofit them for AC.

 

[samuelmorris]

I can't see them ever converting the Junipers to AC from what I've read - it's supposed to be prohibitively difficult/expensive, and if they didn't think that about the 458/5 conversion program, given how that's turned out, it's probably just as well they don't! If their only suitable use would be somewhere with overhead wires, I can see them being retired prematurely.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Possibly a new build is cities to replace the 455s, 456s and 458s and maybe IEP (dual voltage and diesel for Waterloo-Exeter?

 

[Pumbaa]

Not difficult, just expensive. And by the time it may come to pass, that investment may not be recouped. Besides which you'd have to bin 6x of the fleet.

Won't ever happen IMO.

 

[RobShipway]

The 458/5s that I have been on are all 2x2 seating so are internaly different from the 450's 2x3 seating.

I was talking externally about the 458/5's looking like class 450s, not internally which yes as you state have 2+2 seating from what I have seen of them.

 

[456]

at the moment which class 458/5 train has been the most reliable since the first 458/5 came into service? I still want southern to hand over there 455's because then swt will have plenty of spears just one day all class 458/5's brake down. because there new 5 car trains are better and should order more.

 

[Juniper Driver]

SWT always seem to get the hand me downs so I do think we will get their 455's in the future.

 

[samuelmorris]

Such as? I can't find many examples of that with their current fleet...

 

[Bigfoot]

Such as? I can't find many examples of that with their current fleet...

*cough*
456's
*cough*

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

I was talking externally about the 458/5's looking like class 450s, not internally which yes as you state have 2+2 seating from what I have seen of them.

Externally I think they are markedly different, the cabs are different, the windows of the ex 460 are very different, the only thing that they seem to have in common is the blue outer suburban colour scheme.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Such as? I can't find many examples of that with their current fleet...

456/460's and a million Kent Coasters.Yeah I can't really think of that many.

 

[samuelmorris]

456/460's and a million Kent Coasters.Yeah I can't really think of that many.

Current fleet - two dozen 456s and the 8-strong fleet of 460s isn't really a large proportion of their total fleet is it? I wouldn't really consider the 460s proper hand-me-downs anyway given the extent of what was needed to attach them to the 458s. Compared to other TOCs I wasn't really sure why SWT should be singled out for receiving second-hand rolling stock.

 

[TEW]

11 158s and 8 159/1s are also hand-me-downs. I'd agree though that SWT hardly have the worst fleet for being second hand.

 

[Juniper Driver]

11 158s and 8 159/1s are also hand-me-downs. I'd agree though that SWT hardly have the worst fleet for being second hand.

I forgot all about them.Good point and we gave away relatively new 170's and the Good units the 442's.

Current fleet - two dozen 456s and the 8-strong fleet of 460s isn't really a large proportion of their total fleet is it? I wouldn't really consider the 460s proper hand-me-downs anyway given the extent of what was needed to attach them to the 458s. Compared to other TOCs I wasn't really sure why SWT should be singled out for receiving second-hand rolling stock.

26 x 456 + 64 coaches or 8 units of 460's which were a state.Plus I drive them so I roughly know what most of the stock is like.

455 New in 1985?
442 New in 1988.
159 New in 1991.
458 New in 1996.
450 New in 2004.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

1st tranche of 455's entered service ~1982!

 

[Juniper Driver]

1st tranche of 455's entered service ~1982!

Yeah sorry,I was in 315 territory at the time.

 

[cjmillsnun]

I forgot all about them.Good point and we gave away relatively new 170's and the Good units the 442's.



26 x 456 + 64 coaches or 8 units of 460's which were a state.Plus I drive them so I roughly know what most of the stock is like.

455 New in 1985?
442 New in 1988.
159 New in 1991.
458 New in 1996.
450 New in 2004.

444 New in 2005 (IIRC they were built after the 450s)

 

[NorthernSpirit]

The 460's that are currently based at Doncaster. Could these be converted to diesel and be used as a replacement for the class 08 shunters? This way the 460's aren't going to waste.

 

[cjmillsnun]

The 460's that are currently based at Doncaster. Could these be converted to diesel and be used as a replacement for the class 08 shunters? This way the 460's aren't going to waste.

Why replace the '08s? There is no need.

 

[Juniper Driver]

444 New in 2005 (IIRC they were built after the 450s)

Yeah i forgot about them + 450's (doh) to replace the ageing slammers.

 

[3141]

"Hand-me-downs" suggests something passed on almost against the recipient's wishes. In fact SWT wanted more 159s, and also chose to take 158s in place of its newer 170s.

 

[Kite159]

"Hand-me-downs" suggests something passed on almost against the recipient's wishes. In fact SWT wanted more 159s, and also chose to take 158s in place of its newer 170s.

Good thing they did.

Otherwise the trolley and passengers wanting West of Salisbury wouldn't be able to go though the entire train.

 

[WarrenTManager]

The 460's that are currently based at Doncaster. Could these be converted to diesel and be used as a replacement for the class 08 shunters? This way the 460's aren't going to waste.

Eh?

Might keep a shell or two but they will be robbed blind. Bogies will be scrappers if they end up with any at all.

 

[Juniper Driver]

"Hand-me-downs" suggests something passed on almost against the recipient's wishes. In fact SWT wanted more 159s, and also chose to take 158s in place of its newer 170s.

Yeah I think you are right.Lets face it though they do work better together than the 170's so I'd agree with SWT on this one...also I suspect the 456's with 455's is a backward step.Especially in a 456+455+456 formation.

 

[Bigfoot]

Yeah I think you are right.Lets face it though they do work better together than the 170's so I'd agree with SWT on this one...also I suspect the 456's with 455's is a backward step.Especially in a 456+455+456 formation.

The 455s are not allowed to run sandwiched with 456s unless required due to both cabs of the 455 requiring burying due to faults and permission via the wicc/fleet.

 

[infobleep]

Nothing wrong with hand me downs if the rolling stock is good. I'd rather have a hand me down with a loo on board than a shiny new train that doesn't have one.

 

[jopsuk]

The 460's that are currently based at Doncaster. Could these be converted to diesel and be used as a replacement for the class 08 shunters? This way the 460's aren't going to waste.

Buh? When the project is finished, all that will be left of the 460s will be four driving vehicles, with no passenger doors, no passenger windows and no motors (the vehicles in question have never had motors, the windows and doors are being fitted to the other four identical luggage vans). They're good for little other than parts & scrap