Class 458/5

[Monty]

What drivers have nicknamed the 458/5

It's not really a nickname, 459 is what appears on the schedule cards to show that the unit is a 458/5.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Deleted...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

It's not really a nickname, 459 is what appears on the schedule cards to show that the unit is a 458/5.

And they wonder why people ball$ things up! :roll:

 

[swt_passenger]

Err... Why?

I bet it's because the software that generates the schedules can't cope with class variants in that format - so I wonder if they had another similar kludge for the 450/5s?

Although thinking about it as long as the 450/5 was allocated to the right route in the first place there'd be no train crew knowledge issues so it might not have mattered?

 

[HarleyDavidson]

I bet it's because the software that generates the schedules can't cope with class variants in that format - so I wonder if they had another similar kludge for the 450/5s?

Although thinking about it as long as the 450/5 was allocated to the right route in the first place there'd be no train crew knowledge issues so it might not have mattered?

The difference between a 450/5 & 450 is zilch! There are no mechanical or performance changes, no train length changes or anything that could adversely affect the operation of the train. The only difference is the internal layout regarding passenger accommodation. Other than that it is to all intent purposes a bog standard 450.

Whereas a 458/0 & 458/5 is an extra car length and with that comes an extra set of cupboards & gubbins inside. Therefore there IS something to affect the normal operation of the train & that's the extra coach.

 

[infobleep]

I bet it's because the software that generates the schedules can't cope with class variants in that format - so I wonder if they had another similar kludge for the 450/5s?

Although thinking about it as long as the 450/5 was allocated to the right route in the first place there'd be no train crew knowledge issues so it might not have mattered?

If the software can't cope then the developers need to get their fingers out and fix it. I work daily with poorly written software so I start to lose sympathy with software developers and software which need fudges in the data that's entered.

 

[swt_passenger]

The difference between a 450/5 & 450 is zilch! There are no mechanical or performance changes, no train length changes or anything that could adversely affect the operation of the train. The only difference is the internal layout regarding passenger accommodation. Other than that it is to all intent purposes a bog standard 450.

Isn't that what I just implied in my second paragraph?

 

[Goldfish62]

It looks like 450s are at last moving to the Reading line to replace 458/0s. 1735 from Waterloo has been 2x450 at least for the past couple of days.

 

[Juniper Driver]

It's not really a nickname, 459 is what appears on the schedule cards to show that the unit is a 458/5.

Indeed it is as some drivers are 458 trained but not 459 or 458/5 in old money and it's meant to avoid confusion.I was also told that the computer couldn't handle the /5 on the diagram.

I bet it's because the software that generates the schedules can't cope with class variants in that format - so I wonder if they had another similar kludge for the 450/5s?

Although thinking about it as long as the 450/5 was allocated to the right route in the first place there'd be no train crew knowledge issues so it might not have mattered?

No...450/5's and 0's were very similar...only First Class and bins taken out with smaller bins under the seats.Can't remember if there were any other changes.

It looks like 450s are at last moving to the Reading line to replace 458/0s. 1735 from Waterloo has been 2x450 at least for the past couple of days.

As the 458/0 class diminishes.

 

[Bigfoot]

The 450 HC were never an issue as they had to work mainline duties occasionally to get to Northam for maintenance. The 458/5 is effectively a new train and thus needs new training.

They could rip out all of the seats and make a 450 all standing and It wouldn't be an issue to the driver. The train operation would still be the same.

 

[455driver]

If the software can't cope then the developers need to get their fingers out and fix it. I work daily with poorly written software so I start to lose sympathy with software developers and software which need fudges in the data that's entered.

The way it is now is best for everyone, if it aint broke dont fix it.

 

[Juniper Driver]

The software is buggy and the processor/memory is sooo frigging sloooooow.:-x IMHO.

 

[infobleep]

The way it is now is best for everyone, if it aint broke dont fix it.

But the software is broken in my eyes because it can't handle the data being fed to it. I guess perhaps they shouldn't have used the term 458/5 but a different number completely so the software could handle it.

It may just be me but I like software that works. If you start feeding in rubbish then you or other people have to spend some considerable time fixing the data later on. I know from the personal experience of having to fix data whilst having to use a poorly designed piece of software to fix it. I love my job but don't think much of the software.

The 458/5 issue might only be a minor thing but if it is minor, it shouldn't be difficult to fix it my opinion.

 

[455driver]

The 458/5 issue might only be a minor thing but if it is minor, it shouldn't be difficult to fix it my opinion.

Just leave it until they have all been converted then revert back to using 458s on the schedule cards by altering the current 458 details on the system to the 459 (458/5) details and all will be sorted.

 

[Feathers44]

Just leave it until they have all been converted then revert back to using 458s on the schedule cards by altering the current 458 details on the system to the 459 (458/5) details and all will be sorted.

That was what I was going to say. This is surely a temporary problem at best?

 

[Juniper Driver]

Isn't that what I just implied in my second paragraph?

Yeah,sorry...I said the same.

I don't think this 458/459 thing really has anything to do with the TMS problems if that's what's being implied.It's always been buggy and it's got a new coupling screen as well as mysteriously more coaches on the screen...can't be easy to program that into an ageing computer system that takes about two minutes to carry out a command and was brand new in 1996.

 

[swt_passenger]

I don't think this 458/459 thing really has anything to do with the TMS problems...

That's right - going back through the posts, I think it was clear the rest of us we were referring to whatever software is used in the office to generate schedule cards, that Monty first mentioned.

I think you were the first to take a bit of a side side track onto onboard stuff, although at first I thought you might have been referring to the scheduling bloke using a 1990s PC or something...

 

[infobleep]

Why does it need to be 458/5 and 458 now. Why not use the same convention now as might be used in the future.

I may be totally misunderstanding this.

 

[Feathers44]

Why does it need to be 458/5 and 458 now. Why not use the same convention now as might be used in the future.

I may be totally misunderstanding this.

Presumably because a 4 car 458 has different driving requirements to a 5 car 458 (as described previously) they need to be distinguished somehow.

Once all 458s are 5 car formations the distinction will no longer be required and they can go back to the single '458' definition because they'll all be the same again.

So the future will be the same as the past and it's only the present that needs a little extra work to cope with!

 

[Juniper Driver]

That's right - going back through the posts, I think it was clear the rest of us we were referring to whatever software is used in the office to generate schedule cards, that Monty first mentioned.

I think you were the first to take a bit of a side side track onto onboard stuff, although at first I thought you might have been referring to the scheduling bloke using a 1990s PC or something...

Sorry,im a bad person.

 

[Goldfish62]

It's nice to have 450s infiltrating back onto the Reading road. Personally I prefer them - I know others don't - after travelling on 458s I always feel like I need to have a wash, such is their scuzziness.

It's almost 10 years ago that they started being introduced on the Readings, only to be removed in favour of 458s after about three years. Strangely, history is going to repeat itself!

 

[swt_passenger]

It's nice to have 450s infiltrating back onto the Reading road. Personally I prefer them - I know others don't - after travelling on 458s I always feel like I need to have a wash, such is their scuzziness.

It's almost 10 years ago that they started being introduced on the Readings, only to be removed in favour of 458s after about three years. Strangely, history is going to repeat itself!

Hopefully though, in 2017 or whenever, the corresponding forum thread about Desiro City introduction won't run to 92 pages... :roll:

Meanwhile, just to add fuel to the fire, I wonder if they'll be Class 702s...

 

[infobleep]

Presumably because a 4 car 458 has different driving requirements to a 5 car 458 (as described previously) they need to be distinguished somehow.

Once all 458s are 5 car formations the distinction will no longer be required and they can go back to the single '458' definition because they'll all be the same again.

So the future will be the same as the past and it's only the present that needs a little extra work to cope with!

That makes a lot of sense now. I hadn't factored in that they are all under going conversion to 5 cars.

 

[scottie]

458503 is on its way to wimbledon behind 47739.

 

[user15681]

458503 is on its way to wimbledon behind 47739.

5X58
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O31485/2014/09/18/advanced - timings for those wanting them.

 

[Juniper Driver]

http://tinypic.com/m/igbwhy/4]View My Video

Tribute to a class that has lead a troublesome life.

 

[spark001uk]

Good vid. I was waiting to see a hooded guy clung to the back by a glass sucker.

(See if anyone gets that!?)

 

[Goldfish62]

458503 is on its way to wimbledon behind 47739.

I wonder if the "refurbishment" is as non-existent as on 458502.

 

[evergreenadam]

Given the comments about formations 10 v 5 and 4 v 5 yesterday and looking at RTT, it would appear that the split for the 0945 / 0952 Waterloo departures didn't occur at that time. The unit working 2V33 ended up in platform 5 at Waterloo on its return having crossed from the Windsor side to apparently stop on the fast line at Vauxhall. It presumably then formed part of the 1512 to Basingstoke with another unit from Clapham Yard.

Its convenient how three departures occur within 15 minutes at 2052.

So 4 morning peak arrivals at Waterloo on the Windsor lines have now increased from 8 to 10 cars and 5 departures from Waterloo in the evening peak. Will help SWT in time for the autumn passenger counts and the DfT's 2014 PIXC calculation.

 

[hassaanhc]

This week on Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, there has been a missing unit, leading to short formations. Not sure about today (Thursday) as I saw the Windsor pair, but on Tuesday I saw all except 8502.
(Can't remember what happened on Monday)

 

[Bigfoot]

458503 passed through Staines all very shiny and blue. Probably not so shiny on the inside...

Quite frankly I think they are dreadful trains. Certainly not a patch on the German engineering from a passenger point of view.