Class 458/5

[swt_passenger]

Thinking about it more, they should have chosen a few 458 units and put all the 460 middle cars in those units, with the 458 middle cars lengthening the rest .

Alternatively they could have done whatever was necessary to balance out the numbers and positions of motored bogies, toilets etc - which is what they did do?

 

[cjohnson]

Reports were that yesterday the A/C on 8531+8534 conked out. That affected the Windsor diagram yesterday while today at least some journeys of the Hounslow diagram were reported as only 4 coaches.

Ah yes, I saw a few photos doing the rounds on Twitter of damp 458/5s with puddles where the AC had been leaking.

 

[hassaanhc]

Ah yes, I saw a few photos doing the rounds on Twitter of damp 458/5s with puddles where the AC had been leaking.

Oh ok, that doesn't sound good at all :/ https://twitter.com/ashleighjsmith/status/489865108114649088

Still not back today, the Windsor diagram is covered by 8.455

 

[Emblematic]

Oh ok, that doesn't sound good at all :/ https://twitter.com/ashleighjsmith/status/489865108114649088

Still not back today, the Windsor diagram is covered by 8.455

Surely just a blocked or leaking condenser drain though - nothing more dramatic.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Due to train failure which meant me taking a 455 8 car (unscheduled) into Wimbledon yard I noticed 458502 in the shed.

 

[TEW]

Yes, 458502 was delivered earlier this week. If it's like the other 458/5s it will have to wait until 458501 is delivered before commencing fault free running.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

I often see one of the new five coach sets over take us at Twickenham on weekday mornings. Is the seating capacity infact much higher as it appears to be 2 x 2 whereas the blue swt 4 coach trains and junipers are 2 x 3, so although the new trains do have an extra coach is the number of seats therefore about the same. I guess people can stand in a bit more comfort though?

 

[traji00]

I often see one of the new five coach sets over take us at Twickenham on weekday mornings. Is the seating capacity infact much higher as it appears to be 2 x 2 whereas the blue swt 4 coach trains and junipers are 2 x 3, so although the new trains do have an extra coach is the number of seats therefore about the same. I guess people can stand in a bit more comfort though?

Capacity might be the same, as the loss of the third seat may be offset by the extra carriage (Happy to be corrected).
Also it seems 3+2 isn't really being adopted in newer trains/refurbishments (cl321 demo, 456 refurb, cl 700 have 2+2)

 

[swt_passenger]

I often see one of the new five coach sets over take us at Twickenham on weekday mornings. Is the seating capacity infact much higher as it appears to be 2 x 2 whereas the blue swt 4 coach trains and junipers are 2 x 3, so although the new trains do have an extra coach is the number of seats therefore about the same. I guess people can stand in a bit more comfort though?

Definitely very similar seating capacity, the numbers are around somewhere, but not in this thread AFAICT...

The seating capacity 'per train' is actually marginally less than in a 458/0 because of all the standing space. So the effective seating capacity increase on the overall routes into Waterloo (as far as the 458/5 project is concerned) is gained only from the 6 extra units being available. However the total capacity per train including standees is significantly increased, as you'd expect.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Yes, 458502 was delivered earlier this week. If it's like the other 458/5s it will have to wait until 458501 is delivered before commencing fault free running.

So I take it that was ex 458002? Same coaches plus an additional obviously.

 

[TEW]

Yes it is. All the 458/0s will gain an extra coach and just have 500 added to the number.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Yes it is. All the 458/0s will gain an extra coach and just have 500 added to the number.

Thanks.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Have 458532 and 458536 been delivered yet?

 

[TEW]

No. They won't be for some time. They have vehicles which used to be 460 luggage vehicles and they require much more work.

 

[Goldfish62]

No. They won't be for some time. They have vehicles which used to be 460 luggage vehicles and they require much more work.

I'm sure I read somewhere that they're nearly ready. SWT are expecting another three units by September, so surely these must be 458532, 458536 and 458501.

 

[hassaanhc]

After full operation yesterday one of the 10 car sets are broken again, 4 cars only on the Windsor diagram!

 

[subria]

After full operation yesterday one of the 10 car sets are broken again, 4 cars only on the Windsor diagram!

The leading set towards Waterloo on the 17:38 from Staines had issues with the air conditioning - alternately hot and cold at various points along the carriages.

 

[TEW]

I'm sure I read somewhere that they're nearly ready. SWT are expecting another three units by September, so surely these must be 458532, 458536 and 458501.

I believe 458003 and 458004 have both moved to Doncaster so it could be that 458503 and 458504 are the two after 501 rather than 532 and 536.

 

[hassaanhc]

One down again today, looks like the Hounslow diagram is using 455+455 as the 0933 Weybridge to Waterloo (that diagram) didn't stop at Chertsey and Virginia Water, both where 8 cars don't fit (Virginia Water in this direction only). Would have been an interesting situation at Virginia Water as the train is booked a 9 minute wait there, I wonder if the guard did allow boarding and alighting from a single door? (It should not be forgotten that a derogation is usually required from the RSSB to be able to stop and release doors at short platforms, hence the TPE fiasco with 185+185 combinations)

 

[infobleep]

What does RSSB stand for? Given the 9 minute wait, would there be time to implement it? As a passenger I wouldn't be to impressed if my train had people on board and I couldn't board it but it waited 9 minutes.

 

[ainsworth74]

What does RSSB stand for?

Rail Safety and Standards Board

 

[hassaanhc]

What does RSSB stand for? Given the 9 minute wait, would there be time to implement it? As a passenger I wouldn't be to impressed if my train had people on board and I couldn't board it but it waited 9 minutes.

Sorry I should have been more precise.

The RSSB is the Rail Safety and Standards Board who are in charge of the rulebook, known as the Railway Group Standards.

Clause B12.2.2 in standard GM/RT2473 states:

B12.2.2 Manual arrangements that rely solely on the train crew to control the release of individual doors shall not be permitted as part of a SDO system, during normal service operation

http://www.rgsonline.co.uk/Railway_...ck/Railway Group Standards/GMRT2473 Iss 2.pdf

Now, the Desiros do use this system, however a derogation has been obtained to allow their Unit Deselect system to be used.
As the 8 car 455 were not able to stop there according to SWT, it means there is no derogation allowing them to stop there with the release of a single set of doors.

I do feel for the guard who couldn't open even a single set of doors without breaking the rules, and the passengers not seeing it as acceptable . I have no idea what was actually done in the end, Real Time Trains shows it as having stopped at Virginia Water however stopping in the platform alone is enough to have triggered that (happened the other day with a Victoria-London Bridge service showing as stopped at Balham when it actually ran fast to Streatham Hill).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Chertsey passengers lost out, however Virginia Water passengers are very lucky. They could have taken the train from Reading which overtakes the train from Weybridge (4 platform layout, junction to the London end of the platforms) so they can take the train coming from Reading and change at either Egham, Staines or Feltham

(Reading-Waterloo arrive and depart P1 0949
Weybridge-Waterloo P3 arrive 0945 depart 0954
Change at Egham, Staines or Feltham)

 

[infobleep]

So if good announcements were made at the station, pointing out eh time savings of the other train, passengers would have had an acceptable alternative to the doors not opening and the guard hopefully would get less abuse. Assuming the other train allows them to easily reach all the other stations without delays.

 

[infobleep]

May be South West Trains should apply for a derogation for the 455. No harm in having it for occasional uses such as this.

 

[gswindale]

So if good announcements were made at the station, pointing out eh time savings of the other train, passengers would have had an acceptable alternative to the doors not opening and the guard hopefully would get less abuse. Assuming the other train allows them to easily reach all the other stations without delays.

Should do - they'd need to change at Egham, Staines or Feltham but then that'll be a same platform change onto the train they couldn't board at Virginia Water; so no delay.

 

[Goldfish62]

I believe 458003 and 458004 have both moved to Doncaster so it could be that 458503 and 458504 are the two after 501 rather than 532 and 536.

It's three units that SWT are expecting soon. As 8004 has only just gone north it must be at least of 532 or 536, or both.

 

[sd0733]

458532 is between two barrier coaches in the Wabtec yard coupled to 47739 so that one must be making the move down shortly.

 

[Goldfish62]

458532 is between two barrier coaches in the Wabtec yard coupled to 47739 so that one must be making the move down shortly.

As I suspected.

 

[swt_passenger]

May be South West Trains should apply for a derogation for the 455. No harm in having it for occasional uses such as this.

The 455/456s do not have any form of SDO system so there is no possible derogation to apply for. It is the fundamental reason why all platforms on the main suburban side routes are being made ten car capable.

 

[wimbledonpete]

458532 is between two barrier coaches in the Wabtec yard coupled to 47739 so that one must be making the move down shortly.

Think this was what I saw at Wimbledon this morning. Is that loco Robin of Templecombe? (Shameful I know that I looked at the nameplate rather than the number!)