Class 458/5

[SpacePhoenix]

Did SWT when deciding to do the work, look into the possibility of installing pan wells and all the internals needed (wiring, circuit boards, etc) for future conversion to dual voltage?

 

[infobleep]

And in any case the corrosion issue only delayed the project by about 4-5 months. It's all the problems since that are the main issue.

Apologies if it's already been stated but what are the problems since the corrosion issue? Is it just reliability?

 

[swt_passenger]

Did SWT when deciding to do the work, look into the possibility of installing pan wells and all the internals needed (wiring, circuit boards, etc) for future conversion to dual voltage?

Porterbrook had apparently already looked into conversion to AC, back when they were intended to go off lease from SWT, (in 2006 or so) and according to Modern Railways they decided it was not cost effective to convert the 458s.

I have read somewhere that one of the classes already has a pan well 'under the skin' - but am not sure if it is the original 458 or 460.

 

[hassaanhc]

Porterbrook had apparently already looked into conversion to AC, back when they were intended to go off lease from SWT, (in 2006 or so) and according to Modern Railways they decided it was not cost effective to convert the 458s.

I have read somewhere that one of the classes already has a pan well 'under the skin' - but am not sure if it is the original 458 or 460.

458s have pantograph well, 460s don't

 

[swt_passenger]

458s have pantograph well, 460s don't

Thanks, I wasn't sure from memory. That makes it even more strange that even though Alstom had done the difficult bit regarding the structure, it still wasn't considered worth doing the rest.

 

[Emblematic]

They probably calculated that, even if a wholesale third rail conversion programme got underway, third rail would be left on inner suburban routes long enough for these units to see out their days. Most of the units running on third rail now have AC pickup capability, the rest can be shuffled about on the remaining DC services - complete elimination of DC will take decades, if it happens at all.
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I have read somewhere that one of the classes already has a pan well 'under the skin' - but am not sure if it is the original 458 or 460.

Might you be thinking of class 365 which had a roofline profile cover over the pantograph well when working on south eastern lines? Looked a neat job - I don't know why it isn't done on other units.

 

[randompixel]

First day today of having an automated short Feltham announcement. No mention of coach letters on it though.

 

[Domh245]

Robin and his 458 have finally gone

 

[Juniper Driver]

458004 has been out of traffic for a week.Anyone know what's happening to it?Seen it coupled to a COLAS Rail 47 in Wim Pk Dp.

There is currently a 4 car 458 coupled up to the barrier wagons and 47739 in Wimbledon park depot (next to the district line) assumably this will be moving to Wolverton tonight

Just seen this searching through the thread.Still there as I was in there yesterday.

 

[Domh245]

458004 has been out of traffic for a week.Anyone know what's happening to it?Seen it coupled to a COLAS Rail 47 in Wim Pk Dp.

Robin and his 458 have finally gone

It had gone when I went past at about 0810 this morning (the 47 being 47739 robin of templecombe) I assume to doncaster. But I can't find a path in RTT for it. Has it just shunted to somewhere else in the depot?

 

[hassaanhc]

Been quiet here recently :P

Anyway, just noticed that this week Tuesday 8 July - Thursday 10 July there are STP paths on the Shepperton Branch for empty 75mph stock, which appears to be 458/5 testing? It ran today, only found this because I was looking at the Shepperton Branch timetable as I'm looking to bash it :P

5Z21 1200 Strawberry Hill C.S.D. to Kingston
5Z20 1220 Kingston to Shepperton
5Z23 1249 Shepperton to Kingston
5Z22 1320 Kingston to Shepperton
5Z25 1354 Shepperton to Strawberry Hill C.S.D.

 

[Bigfoot]

Been quiet here recently :P

Anyway, just noticed that this week Tuesday 8 July - Thursday 10 July there are STP paths on the Shepperton Branch for empty 75mph stock, which appears to be 458/5 testing? It ran today, only found this because I was looking at the Shepperton Branch timetable as I'm looking to bash it :P

5Z21 1200 Strawberry Hill C.S.D. to Kingston
5Z20 1220 Kingston to Shepperton
5Z23 1249 Shepperton to Kingston
5Z22 1320 Kingston to Shepperton
5Z25 1354 Shepperton to Strawberry Hill C.S.D.

That's 456 driver training. Has been for many weeks now.

 

[hassaanhc]

That's 456 driver training. Has been for many weeks now.

Fail Thanks for the correction

 

[TEW]

There aren't any spare 458/5s for training or testing at the moment. 458/5 testing is usually done to Reading.

 

[swt_passenger]

Was this the 458502 delivery run overnight last night:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97037/2014/07/11/advanced

I think it was the next expected incoming unit, and presumably the first of the ex 458s?

 

[user15681]

Was this the 458502 delivery run overnight last night:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97037/2014/07/11/advanced

I think it was the next expected incoming unit, and presumably the first of the ex 458s?

It was indeed 47739 and 458502!

 

[fgwrich]

Was this the 458502 delivery run overnight last night:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97037/2014/07/11/advanced

I think it was the next expected incoming unit, and presumably the first of the ex 458s?

And it's not the prettiest looking unit either. It's a shame SWT/Alstom/Porterbrook didn't decide to try and blend in the extra coach into the new formation as the ex 458/0s look even odder in the new Blue Suburban livery.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/73738...yKw-hxVfdH-diyxYM-foup47-gcUTSJ-4ymKtY-faeEmC

https://www.flickr.com/photos/harrysavage/14414564605

The ex 460 coach in this unit in this photo is towards the end, just behind the rear driving car and closest to the 08.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96920136@N02/14481755004

 

[Bigfoot]

Where is 458501? Thought that went north first?!

 

[infobleep]

Was this the 458502 delivery run overnight last night:

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/K97037/2014/07/11/advanced

I think it was the next expected incoming unit, and presumably the first of the ex 458s?

How many drivers would it take to bring train down from Doncaster? Also I see the train got stuck at Kew East Junction and Old Kew Junction for over 50 minutes. Anyone know what might have delayed it.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

Well there were some action going on on one of the sidings near Wabtec on Thursday, whereby one of the shunters was shunting one part of the 458/5's onto another line.

 

[Defiance149]

Where is 458501? Thought that went north first?!

8002 went north on 5/12/13, 8001 on 31/1/14.

 

[TEW]

And it's not the prettiest looking unit either. It's a shame SWT/Alstom/Porterbrook didn't decide to try and blend in the extra coach into the new formation as the ex 458/0s look even odder in the new Blue Suburban livery.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/73738...yKw-hxVfdH-diyxYM-foup47-gcUTSJ-4ymKtY-faeEmC

https://www.flickr.com/photos/harrysavage/14414564605

The ex 460 coach in this unit in this photo is towards the end, just behind the rear driving car and closest to the 08.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/96920136@N02/14481755004

They always were going to look like that unfortunately. Been stated for a while, if not from the start, than only the ex-460 vehicles will have ribbon glazing. The ex-458/0 vehicles certainly do look odd though.

 

[swt_passenger]

They always were going to look like that unfortunately. Been stated for a while, if not from the start, than only the ex-460 vehicles will have ribbon glazing.

I think it was highlighted in the four page article about the conversion that was run in Modern Railways a couple of years ago. Certainly always been a 'known' feature which shouldn't come as a surprise. Of course these now look more like a 450 - perhaps they should stick some blue vinyl between the ribbon windows...

 

[Fudgefrog]

Could they not have painted the window areas to match the ribbon glazing, as I presume was the case on the 458/0 livery? That still wouldn't be ideal, and to an attentive eye would be different, but I can't think of a sensible reason for the blue paint to go right up to the glass if it then doesn't match the ex-460 coach, nor the standard SWT livery (in which even the 458s have a prominent metal rim, and the 450/444 all have glazing).

 

[swt_passenger]

Could they not have painted the window areas to match the ribbon glazing, as I presume was the case on the 458/0 livery? That still wouldn't be ideal, and to an attentive eye would be different, but I can't think of a sensible reason for the blue paint to go right up to the glass if it then doesn't match the ex-460 coach, nor the standard SWT livery (in which even the 458s have a prominent metal rim, and the 450/444 all have glazing).

Anything is possible. The LM 350s are basically disguised by black paint or vinyl around and between the windows aren't they?

 

[456]

seeing the photos of 458502 it looks like its ready to come down to london to get tested on the Windsor/Hounslow lines. is it waiting for the another 458/5? or is there still work that needs to be done on it?

 

[swt_passenger]

seeing the photos of 458502 it looks like its ready to come down to london to get tested on the Windsor/Hounslow lines. is it waiting for the another 458/5? or is there still work that needs to be done on it?

458502 was delivered to Wimbledon over the weekend - its what we've just been discussing...

 

[Domh245]

Will the 47 and barrier wagons be sat around waiting to take another /0 up like they were last time?

 

[cjohnson]

What 458/5 diagrams were working today? I saw a 10 car set parked up at Clapham Jct sidings going nowhere (531 and 535?) around 8am and at 7pm, but no short formation notices...

 

[hassaanhc]

What 458/5 diagrams were working today? I saw a 10 car set parked up at Clapham Jct sidings going nowhere (531 and 535?) around 8am and at 7pm, but no short formation notices...

Reports were that yesterday the A/C on 8531+8534 conked out. That affected the Windsor diagram yesterday while today at least some journeys of the Hounslow diagram were reported as only 4 coaches.
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Could they not have painted the window areas to match the ribbon glazing, as I presume was the case on the 458/0 livery? That still wouldn't be ideal, and to an attentive eye would be different, but I can't think of a sensible reason for the blue paint to go right up to the glass if it then doesn't match the ex-460 coach, nor the standard SWT livery (in which even the 458s have a prominent metal rim, and the 450/444 all have glazing).

Thinking about it more, they should have chosen a few 458 units and put all the 460 middle cars in those units, with the 458 middle cars lengthening the rest . Then it would look much more balanced with only the driving cars being different on a few units, and even better if they use black window surrounds as you suggested to match the others (look at buses in London for example, some operators go for the black vinyl on window pillars while others don't and keep them red, the ones with black vinyl look much better).