Class 458/5

[hassaanhc]

Yeah c2c do this as well, I assumed it was fairly standard practice these days. The 450 numbers are pretty tiny but at least they're there. Incidentally I had the same problem with a 180, so perhaps it's an Alstom thing?

Yeah SWT themselves ask for the number, indeed I've reported stuff this way (there's no better way of identification than numbers! ) However the numbers were only missing on the inside, they did appear outside.

 

[JonathanH]

At Waterloo tonight

458531/458534 2058 London Waterloo to Windsor & Eton Riverside
458533 2107 London Waterloo to Hounslow

 

[Goldfish62]

Yeah SWT themselves ask for the number, indeed I've reported stuff this way (there's no better way of identification than numbers! ) However the numbers were only missing on the inside, they did appear outside.

I'm sure SWT also asked for a train that works. They didn't get that either...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The way things are going, two new units in service every 2 and a half months, it will take at least another 40 months for them to enter service, so more than 3 years . How long does the 1000 miles testing take? Best thing would be to have a few paths to Weymouth and back, get it done within a few days (preferably at night so there are fewer problems if they manage to sit down somewhere)

How long would it take Siemens to build enough 5 car 450s to replace ALL the 458s and enough 450s to replace ALL the 455s and and 456s and enough class 185s to replace ALL the 158s and 159s with perhaps a couple of 3 car 450s for the Lymington branch (either that or a couple of 3 car 185s - they could have a different engine in the unit running each day to even wear on the engines, it would probably only need one engine running for the branch).

 

[swt_passenger]

How long would it take Siemens to build enough 5 car 450s to replace ALL the 458s and enough 450s to replace ALL the 455s and and 456s and enough class 185s to replace ALL the 158s and 159s with perhaps a couple of 3 car 450s for the Lymington branch (either that or a couple of 3 car 185s - they could have a different engine in the unit running each day to even wear on the engines, it would probably only need one engine running for the branch).

If you were ordering such a vast number of 450s, why would you possibly use a different type and length of train on the electrified Lymington Branch?

 

[cjmillsnun]

How long would it take Siemens to build enough 5 car 450s to replace ALL the 458s and enough 450s to replace ALL the 455s and and 456s and enough class 185s to replace ALL the 158s and 159s with perhaps a couple of 3 car 450s for the Lymington branch (either that or a couple of 3 car 185s - they could have a different engine in the unit running each day to even wear on the engines, it would probably only need one engine running for the branch).

aside from the 458s why bother?

The 455s are reliable and the re-engineering will make them more so. Air con for inner commuter stock isn't necessary as the doors will be opening and closing so much that the system will never have enough time to regulate either the temperature or the humidity.

SWT's 158/9s have a reputation for reliability and are only middle aged. Salisbury know the units well.

Also neither the 450 or the 185 meet current standards so none could be made now. The 350s were a continuation order from LM and the option for that has now expired.

 

[infobleep]

Apologies if it's already been stated but what are the standards issues stopping the 450 and 185 from being built again?

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[Dr_Intoxicated]

aside from the 458s why bother?

..... Air con for inner commuter stock isn't necessary as the doors will be opening and closing so much that the system will never have enough time to regulate either the temperature or the humidity....

This is not my expeience when in previous summers 455s have replaced 450s on the Windsor line.

 

[hassaanhc]

This is not my expeience when in previous summers 455s have replaced 450s on the Windsor line.

Windsor services don't have that many stops (well in London anyway), but nevertheless I agree with you. I use the Hounslow services which stop everywhere and the A/C works well. And the 455s are notorious for being ovens in hot weather, especially the /9 variant which don't have the blowers along the aisle (only small vents dotted here and there which are half covered by advert holders :roll

 

[456]

about a month ago I asked if the 458/5's would do the rugby specials. did they use them last weekend?

 

[WVL14]

about a month ago I asked if the 458/5's would do the rugby specials. did they use them last weekend?

Not at this stage. At the moment 458/5s do not have any weekend work. They are not planned to appear at weekends until unit 11 is released to traffic.

 

[Goldfish62]

aside from the 458s why bother?

The 455s are reliable and the re-engineering will make them more so. Air con for inner commuter stock isn't necessary as the doors will be opening and closing so much that the system will never have enough time to regulate either the temperature or humidity .

Oh come now. That's the old excuse that SWT peddled before they were rumbled. The LU S stock manages fine, as do Southern's Electrostars. The real reason is the cost fitting in stock with a limited lifespan.

 

[WWTownEnth]

Not at this stage. At the moment 458/5s do not have any weekend work. They are not planned to appear at weekends until unit 11 is released to traffic.

Hi, could you explain what you mean by "Unit 11 is released to traffic" please.

Thanks in advance.

 

[MCR247]

I assume it means that there won't be any weekend diagrams until there are 11 458/5s in service.

So maybe some time in 2017

 

[Chris125]

Apologies if it's already been stated but what are the standards issues stopping the 450 and 185 from being built again?

I believe the main issue is cab crashworthiness.

Chris

 

[swt_passenger]

I believe the main issue is cab crashworthiness.

So do I. Which is why I also think there wouldn't be anything like the same issues with building more intermediate cars - as was hoped for with the 185s, and would probably in hindsight have been a better solution for SWT's 450s.

Intermediate cars for Electrostars (in 378 guise) don't seem to be an issue...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Is there any station on the SWT network that currently has 8 car (2x4) class 450s call at ht that couldn't handle a 10 car (2x5) class 450?

 

[gswindale]

From memory; a number of platforms on the Reading line can't handle anything longer than an 8 car 450/458 at present.

Pretty certain Martins Heron cannot.

 

[SWT_USER]

Is there any station on the SWT network that currently has 8 car (2x4) class 450s call at ht that couldn't handle a 10 car (2x5) class 450?

Feltham. It can't easily be extended either as there is a.level.crossing at one end and a bridge at the other.

EDIT. I was thinking only of stations that the 458/5s currently serve.

 

[swt_passenger]

There are loads of 8 car platforms where 8.450 or 12.450 call, once you get well away from London.

Apart from stations towards Reading already mentioned some significant examples near me are: Fareham, Fratton, Hilsea, Cosham, Bedhampton.

But with ASDO being rolled out on the 450 and 444 fleets this summer it isn't really going to be an issue for much longer.

 

[Emblematic]

This may help, recently updated map of the platform extension work. http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/platformextensionmap040614.jpg

I also note there's an update on the SWT site about the 458/5 progress which I hadn't seen before, in particular this comment:

"We have so far introduced two 10-car 458/5 trains which are being used to provide extra capacity on services from Waterloo to Windsor and on the Hounslow Loop and Weybridge route. Between June and September, we expect a further 20 carriages to be completed by our contractors and handed over to South West Trains. Ten of these carriages should be introduced into passenger service during September, and the remaining ten are needed to complete our staff training programme."

So a total of eight units (six in service) by the end of September! This thread could be going a while...

 

[hassaanhc]

This may help, recently updated map of the platform extension work. http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/uploads/platformextensionmap040614.jpg

I also note there's an update on the SWT site about the 458/5 progress which I hadn't seen before, in particular this comment:

"We have so far introduced two 10-car 458/5 trains which are being used to provide extra capacity on services from Waterloo to Windsor and on the Hounslow Loop and Weybridge route. Between June and September, we expect a further 20 carriages to be completed by our contractors and handed over to South West Trains. Ten of these carriages should be introduced into passenger service during September, and the remaining ten are needed to complete our staff training programme."

So a total of eight units (six in service) by the end of September! This thread could be going a while...

Not quite a recent map but at the same time jumping the gun a little :roll:, at Wandsworth Town the extension at the country end of P4 only started about 2-3 months ago and is still unfinished (they did a very short amount at the London end ages ago). And Berrylands extensions only had hoardings removed in the last week or so. While I'm certain Raynes Park and others appear to have been finished but still have hoardings up. At least Kingston is correct, it is nowhere near finished at all!

 

[infobleep]

I believe the main issue is cab crashworthiness.

Chris

If that is the case, why are they in service? Or is the risk very low?

Also could they not revise the cab for crash worthiness and build new ones, with revised model numbers?

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[Emblematic]

I judged it to be a recent version by the file name rather than the issue date on the map (which was blanked out in previous issues anyway, and probably refers to the original map layout without the colour coding.) It certainly has more green dots than the one posted about six months ago. It's been a few months since I regularly used these lines, they certainly didn't seem to be in any rush last year.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

If that is the case, why are they in service? Or is the risk very low?

Also could they not revise the cab for crash worthiness and build new ones, with revised model numbers?

It's simply that the standards have changed since the 450s were built; there is nothing unsafe about the design of the 450s.

 

[SansPareil]

It's simply that the standards have changed since the 450s were built; there is nothing unsafe about the design of the 450s.

The constant rolling improvement of accessibility, crash-worthiness and emissions requirements must be adding an enormous amount of costs to nearly every element of operating the railway network in this country.

 

[hassaanhc]

I judged it to be a recent version by the file name rather than the issue date on the map (which was blanked out in previous issues anyway, and probably refers to the original map layout without the colour coding.) It certainly has more green dots than the one posted about six months ago. It's been a few months since I regularly used these lines, they certainly didn't seem to be in any rush last year.

Oops, fail on their behalf

 

[WVL14]

Hi, could you explain what you mean by "Unit 11 is released to traffic" please.

Thanks in advance.

Just means there will be no weekend diagrams for 458/5s until 11 units are available for trafffic.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would a new build of 480s (dc version of a 380) meet the current regs or have the regs changed enough since the 380s were built that a new build would fall foul of the regs?

 

[infobleep]

The constant rolling improvement of accessibility, crash-worthiness and emissions requirements must be adding an enormous amount of costs to nearly every element of operating the railway network in this country.

Are all these regulations necessary? Surely what matters is the safety of staff and passengers. So if the trains are safe continue to build them.

I sometimes wonder if more rolling stock could be built if they weren't so expensive.

You here of talk about cutting staff numbers to save money but do they ever talk about cutting coaching stock building costs to save money?

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