Class 458/5

[3141]

I think it's a consequence of what train companies, and the DfT, usually put in their announcements.

I first noticed this with Chiltern in the 1990s, when they made changes to timings and stock allocations and announced an extra 700 seats into Marylebone. It sounds great, but if you get a particular train, because you need to in order to get to work on time, and by the time that train reaches your station it already has a large number of standing passengers, an extra 70 seats probably isn't going to enable you to sit on one of them.

In this case SWT have been careful with their words, but the media, which aren't much good at accuracy in any case, are so used to the usual talk about extra seats that they haven't noticed what SWT actually said.

 

[southern442]

And there won't be an extra 20,000 "seats". Even SWT carefully state that there will be space for an extra 20,000 passengers, not seats. This obsession the media has with a seat for everyone even on the shortest of journeys.

I was going to mention that but I wasn't sure if it was true.

 

[swt_passenger]

We had the same debate about the BBC's reporting of 20,000 extra seats back in October, around post #428, I guess unless anyone explains this in words of one syllable to Paul Clifton he'll keep repeating the same old guff...

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

So going from an 8 coach 450 to a 10 coach 458 what is the seat differential, are there any more seats or are there actually less given the 2+2 arrangement?

 

[Goldfish62]

So going from an 8 coach 450 to a 10 coach 458 what is the seat differential, are there any more seats or are there actually less given the 2+2 arrangement?

I'm sure I saw somewhere that there are more, but not that many more. The biggest gain is in aisle width so that people can stand in the middle of the carriage without fear that they won't be able to get past others when they want to get off.

Oh, and seated passengers will be more comfortable as there are spacers between the seats as per SWT's 455s. I'm disappointed in the reduction in "airline" seats, though - on my daily commute I much prefer these for their better legroom, fold-down tables and privacy.

 

[swt_passenger]

So going from an 8 coach 450 to a 10 coach 458 what is the seat differential, are there any more seats or are there actually less given the 2+2 arrangement?

Back in post #430, I reported (from info in the previous wnxx forum) that an individual 458/5 has a few less seats overall than the unmodified 458 - somewhere around 250, IIRC. The only real increase in total number of '458 seats' is therefore because there are 36 of the units, rather than 30.

I didn't keep the exact figures, but my latest P5 book suggests a 450/5 HC variant as used on the Windsor side (before the refitting of first class), had 240 seats, and the unmodified 458 had 279 seats (first and standard total). So I'd suggest the 10 car 458/5 won't be vastly different to an 8 x 450/5, in terms of seat numbers. It's all about extra standing capacity. QED...

 

[Dr_Intoxicated]

Thanks for the information, looks like I will still struggle to get a seat from Feltham in the mornings.

 

[hassaanhc]

SWT Twitter feed keep saying longer trains are to be shortly added to the Reading lines, I asked them if this was the 458/5 project for the Windsor/Hounslow side and they replied this:

they will be utilised on the Reading line, they're coming to the end of their 5000 fault free running testing so imminently

I am confused now

 

[joeykins82]

Well the Reading Line (in my mind at least) would cover anything running via Richmond, Feltham and Staines; the Windsor & Eton Riverside line is a branch of the Waterloo to Reading line.

 

[swt_passenger]

SWT Twitter feed keep saying longer trains are to be shortly added to the Reading lines, I asked them if this was the 458/5 project for the Windsor/Hounslow side and they replied this:

they will be utilised on the Reading line, they're coming to the end of their 5000 fault free running testing so imminently

I am confused now

I expect they'll be used on the 'Reading Line' as far as Staines, when they'll turn off and go to Windsor. Perhaps someone at SWT is using 'Reading lines' in a wider than normal sense, whereas most of us would refer to the 'Windsor side'...

 

[455driver]

Perhaps someone who sits in an office all day at SWT is using 'Reading lines' in a wider than normal sense, whereas most of us would refer to the 'Windsor side'...

Those lines are the Windsor lines, the stations between Staines and Wokingham are not having their platforms extended this period so wont normally be seeing 458/5s in service.

In my opinion its just more spin from an office jockey!
But thats probably anecdotal as well!

 

[swt_passenger]

In my opinion its just more spin from an office jockey!
But thats probably anecdotal as well!

There's a good reason why it's called a twitter feed...

 

[TEW]

Well the Reading Line (in my mind at least) would cover anything running via Richmond, Feltham and Staines; the Windsor & Eton Riverside line is a branch of the Waterloo to Reading line.

As 455driver posted above though, although you could describe them as the Reading lines, all the lines through Twickenham, Feltham etc are normally described as the Windsor Lines. Saying they're going to be running on the Reading Lines is a bit confusing.

 

[Goldfish62]

Those lines are the Windsor lines, the stations between Staines and Wokingham are not having their platforms extended this period so wont normally be seeing 458/5s in service.

In my opinion its just more spin from an office jockey!
But thats probably anecdotal as well!

And the substations west of Virginia haven't been upgraded so they'll go fizz-bang if you try to run a whole fleet of 458/5s to Reading..

 

[455driver]

458/5s wont draw much more current than the present 458/0s, they are just set slightly higher in the power settings.

 

[user15681]

It seems like the first 458/5 will run this Friday (07/03) on 1Z21 to Windsor & Eton Riverside, leaving Waterloo at 1305. Runs this day only, so, not sure if passenger or press only (probably the latter). Return working to WAT is ECS only, then ECS to Wimbledon Park.

And to top it off, it's scheduled from platform 20...

 

[hassaanhc]

Thanks for all your replies Re the Reading/Windsor confusion, so as I thought the people manning the Twitter feed are making an error. Bit of a shame when the staff are from the service control room and not customer services so shouldn't be making errors with regards to the naming of lines, but for all we know they could have been given the wrong info from above which they are relaying :?

 

[455driver]

If they have any sort of interest in what their job entails then I would hope they would know basic stuff like this!

 

[Monty]

First in service run will be the 0558 off Waterloo to Windsor on Monday the 11th and will stay on the Windsor line all day.

 

[455driver]

I am on Night Nights so might go for a piccy, not that early/late though depending on your viewpoint but during the day!

 

[TEW]

It seems like the first 458/5 will run this Friday (07/03) on 1Z21 to Windsor & Eton Riverside, leaving Waterloo at 1305. Runs this day only, so, not sure if passenger or press only (probably the latter). Return working to WAT is ECS only, then ECS to Wimbledon Park.

And to top it off, it's scheduled from platform 20...

I believe it is meant to be a press run only but it is being advertised as a full public train and the times for it are in public booking engines.

 

[user15681]

I believe it is meant to be a press run only but it is being advertised as a full public train and the times for it are in public booking engines.

Yes, I believe it is too. The fact it was advertised on NRE as public threw me.

 

[Goldfish62]

First in service run will be the 0558 off Waterloo to Windsor on Monday the 11th and will stay on the Windsor line all day.

Is that Monday 10th or Tuesday 11th? I don't want a wasted trip....

 

[Monty]

Is that Monday 10th or Tuesday 11th? I don't want a wasted trip....

10th..

 

[Goldfish62]

10th..

Ta!

If it's working on the 2.5 hour cycle throughout the day that means it works the 23.28 from Waterloo, with the rear unit forming the 23.50 to Reading. Although 5-car stop boards were fitted at Virginia Water, Longcross and Sunningdale some months ago, none are yet fitted west of there.

Also, with one day to go before passenger operation, the stop boards at CJ have not yet been moved and none of the relocated/new platform-end monitors fitted at numerous stations have yet been switched on. Cutting it a bit fine, aren't they???:roll:

 

[TEW]

I shouldn't imagine they will go on to work the 2328 Windsor service or the 2350 Reading. There's two likely ECS moves for the units in as STPs from Monday, to get them to and from Wimbledon Park Depot.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q31558/2014/03/10/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q31560/2014/03/10/advanced

 

[Goldfish62]

I shouldn't imagine they will go on to work the 2328 Windsor service or the 2350 Reading. There's two likely ECS moves for the units in as STPs from Monday, to get them to and from Wimbledon Park Depot.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q31558/2014/03/10/advanced
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Q31560/2014/03/10/advanced

Ah ha - thanks.

 

[4-6-2 Coast]

Looks like one of the 458/0s is on it's way to Doncaster tonight. Is this the first?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O80298/2014/03/05/advanced

 

[Bigfoot]

Looks like one of the 458/0s is on it's way to Doncaster tonight. Is this the first?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O80298/2014/03/05/advanced

Second. 8002 has been away for a few months now.

 

[4-6-2 Coast]

Second. 8002 has been away for a few months now.

Even better - I hope it's a sign the conversion rate is picking up. I believe all the 460s have been converted (if not delivered yet) yes?