Class 458/5

[hassaanhc]

I hope they don't ruin the seats and install the uncomfortable ones found in the 450/455 units, I think the current 458 Standard Class ones give the First Class seats on the 450s a run for their money (let alone Standard)

 

[Monty]

The seating type on the 458s will remain the same so have no fear. It's just the layout that has changed (from 3+2 to 2+2).

 

[TEW]

Some seats will also now have armrests so should be even more comfortable.

 

[Goldfish62]

Any updates? As we head towards them being a full year late I can't see any evidence of crew training runs on Real Time Trains over the last couple of weeks and there's still only three units delivered.

On a positive note, I've been told that the 458/0s don't have the same corrosion problems as the 460s...

 

[Monty]

No more crew training for a while now, the company now have a small pool of guards to work the first units with drivers from Wimbledon Park Depot. It's going to be a staged introduction into service, however you should see them on Windsor and Weybridge via Hounslow services towards the beginning of March. If all goes well full crew training should commence in May.

 

[Goldfish62]

No more crew training for a while now, the company now have a small pool of guards to work the first units with drivers from Wimbledon Park Depot. It's going to be a staged introduction into service, however you should see them on Windsor and Weybridge via Hounslow services towards the beginning of March. If all goes well full crew training should commence in May.

Thanks for the update. Always appreciated.

 

[Blindtraveler]

has there been any hints dropped by anyone as to why the gatX [460s] units were in such a mess externally?

 

[Goldfish62]

No more crew training for a while now, the company now have a small pool of guards to work the first units with drivers from Wimbledon Park Depot. It's going to be a staged introduction into service, however you should see them on Windsor and Weybridge via Hounslow services towards the beginning of March. If all goes well full crew training should commence in May.

Why is SWT being so cautious? Apparently the 5k miles fault free running that the first pair of units was required to undertake is unprecedentedly high. Therefore, having (eventually) passed this, surely SWT should have some confidence in the trains.

Also, given that crew training stopped in early February and won't restart until May that's three months down the drain with a project that was already running nine months late. Looks like it's now a full year late.

 

[Monty]

It's not SWT, it's Alstom who are taking their time unfortunately. All of the completed units are still officially Alstom's and have yet to be formally handed over to SWT. As for why they have to do so much fault free running, to my knowledge 5000 miles is that standard all new train designs much complete before being accepted for service. The 458/5s have been modified to the point that warrants the requirement to do 5000 miles, anyway first booked run is scheduled for the 7th March (though this is mainly for the benefit of the press). Then a staged introduction as previously mentioned with a small pool of train crew, SWT obviously want to see how they perform in passenger service before training everybody.

 

[Bigfoot]

SWT Desiros had to do 5000 miles also.

 

[arty762]

Got bigwigs from Porterbrook comming down to depot tommorrow to walk through units and carry out the acceptence if all goes well

 

[Y186520]

South Today had a report on its lunchtime "programme".
To sum up Paul Clifton said delivery was a year late. First unit had 280 faults. Units to start in service early March. SWT say contractors Wabtec
and Alsthom at fault for late delivery and Alsthom say due to units having
been out of service for a long time the work needed was much more than was
predicted.

Usually a lunchtime report will be on the evening 1830 "programme" but you
will have to put up with Sally Taylor presenting .

 

[Bigfoot]

Press release here.

http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/extra%20carriages.aspx

Windsor line to get first 10 car service.

 

[RPM]

South Today had a report on its lunchtime "programme".
To sum up Paul Clifton said delivery was a year late. First unit had 280 faults. Units to start in service early March. SWT say contractors Wabtec
and Alsthom at fault for late delivery and Alsthom say due to units having
been out of service for a long time the work needed was much more than was
predicted.

I thought SWT were unusually frank in their blaming of Wabtec/Alstom, not that I blame them. Did the first 460 converted stand in storage for that long before work commenced? That excuse didn't ring true to me.

Usually a lunchtime report will be on the evening 1830 "programme" but you
will have to put up with Sally Taylor presenting .

LMFAO!

 

[PG]

For the benefit of those unable to access links this is the text of the SWT press release:

INTRODUCTION OF EXTRA TRAIN CARRIAGES GETS UNDERWAY ON UK’S BUSIEST COMMUTER NETWORK

• Roll out of extra carriages on South West Trains network starts in mid-March
• Waterloo to Windsor line first to benefit from additional space for passengers
• £65m investment in 108 refurbished carriages
• Programme will deliver capacity for extra 23,000 peak-time travellers every day

South West Trains passengers will see the first new train carriages being introduced onto their services next month to help provide extra capacity on the UK’s busiest commuter network.

A total of 108 extra carriages will be introduced over the next 12 months, with the first 10-car train being rolled out on the London Waterloo to Windsor line from mid March.The additional carriages, representing an investment of £65 million, are set to provide capacity for an extra 23,000 peak time passengers every day.

The carriages, which have been funded through the Government’s High Level Output Specification Programme (HLOS), will see a number of the busiest trains extended to run with 10-carriages and extra services introduced on some routes.

The HLOS programme is planned in two phases.The first 60 carriages, previously in use at Gatwick Express and owned by Porterbrook, are currently being refurbished by the leasing company's contractor Alstom.South West Trains has now taken delivery of a further 48 Class 456 carriages, previously operated by Southern, for phase two.These carriages will begin operating on the Guildford to Ascot line from early April.

Rail Minister Stephen Hammond said: “We are investing record amounts into transforming our railways and it is great to see this investment delivering real benefits to passengers, local businesses and the economy. These much-needed carriages will provide a welcome boost to commuters through additional trains and services, allowing more people to travel on these vital commuter routes.”

Christian Roth, Fleet Director for the South West Trains-Network Rail Alliance, said: “These extra carriages will provide significant improvements for passengers on some of our busiest services. We will be able to lengthen many peak trains from 8-carriages to 10-carriages, providing extra space for our commuters.

“There has been a significant amount of work to do in bringing the carriages up to the standards we require for our passengers.We are pleased to now be pressing ahead with plans to introduce the first 10 carriages in mid-March. We will continue to work with Porterbrook and its contractor Alstom to bring the full benefits of the much needed extra capacity to our customers as soon as possible."

These first carriages will be used to operate the first ever regular 10-car passenger service on the London Waterloo to Windsor line.In addition to the extra carriages, the South West Trains-Network Rail Alliance has extended platforms at over 60 stations to enable longer trains to run on key routes and has re-opened Platform 20 of the former Waterloo International Terminal which will be used for full passenger services from 19th May.

Further proposals are also being developed in partnership with the Department for Transport to deliver capacity for almost 10,000 extra peak-time passengers travelling on the main suburban and Reading lines by 2019.The proposals include bringing Platforms 21 to 24 of the former International Terminal back into passenger service and extending Platforms 1-4 at Waterloo to accommodate longer trains.

 

[swt_passenger]

To sum up Paul Clifton said delivery was a year late. First unit had 280 faults. Units to start in service early March...

Just watched the re-run. Includes Paul Clifton at Reading Platform 4, discussing delays in the start of the '10 car Reading service' :roll: with members of the public, unfortunately they aren't actually being introduced for Reading, but Windsor and the Hounslow loop etc.

He'll have no doubt seen SWT's announcement today about them being for the Windsor line, not to mention all the previous announcements, so why make this sort of fundamental error?

Just for completeness the web version of the same story is wrong as well:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-26351493

 

[PG]

Maybe he had a prior appointment in Reading or took his wife shopping there...or somebody on Twitter etc mentioned Reading - why bother reading the press release or let facts get in the way?

 

[Goldfish62]

Just watched the re-run. Includes Paul Clifton at Reading Platform 4, discussing delays in the start of the '10 car Reading service' :roll: with members of the public, unfortunately they aren't actually being introduced for Reading, but Windsor and the Hounslow loop etc.

He'll have no doubt seen SWT's announcement today about them being for the Windsor line, not to mention all the previous announcements, so why make this sort of fundamental error?

Just for completeness the web version of the same story is wrong as well:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-26351493

Ridiculous article. It also says "only 36" will enter service next month. If all 36 units were entering service next month it would be an extraordinary feat of engineering and logistics...:roll:

So many people seem to have got it wrong about where the trains are going and I don't understand why.

What's really disappointing for me is not the fictional non-arrival of 10-car trains on the Reading line, but the non-appearance of the previously-promised extra peak hours Reading line services from May as a knock-on effect of the delayed 458/5 programme. The crowding on some peak services in both directions in both peaks is ridiculous and getting worse, and won't be relieved by longer trains to Hounslow and Windsor.

 

[antharro]

In this thread, Pumbaa said:

There is currently a 36 5-car EMU order out to tender. Three bidders are shortlisted, delivery is for 2018. These will run the 'Windsor lines', essentially Hounslow loop, Weybridge and Windsor services, releasing 458/5s back to Reading duties and others.

Has the plan always been for the 458s to return to Reading duties? Or has this come about as a result of the 36 5-car order?

Additionally, I read on Wikipedia that the 458's will be receiving new train management software. I assume this software will include the auto-announcer. Will this be standardized with the 444/450 fleets, and the same person used?

 

[Pumbaa]

They've had tables left in the ends of the DMOS vehicles to allow easy reinstatement of First class. I don't know which led to what, but think of it as part of the main project to increase capacity overall.

 

[RobShipway]

I was always under the impression that the 458/5's would go to the Windsor line and in turn that would release class 450 units to be used on the Reading - Waterloo services. Is this not the case now?

 

[jopsuk]

That is the case once the 458/5s are all delivered, but longer term the Reading services may go back to 458s in 10 car formation, new units used on Windsor etc services and the 450s used to increase mainline capacity.

 

[Julian G]

458531+458534 went to Waterloo earlier

 

[southern442]

Ridiculous article. It also says "only 36" will enter service next month. If all 36 units were entering service next month it would be an extraordinary feat of engineering and logistics...:roll:

So many people seem to have got it wrong about where the trains are going and I don't understand why.

What's really disappointing for me is not the fictional non-arrival of 10-car trains on the Reading line, but the non-appearance of the previously-promised extra peak hours Reading line services from May as a knock-on effect of the delayed 458/5 programme. The crowding on some peak services in both directions in both peaks is ridiculous and getting worse, and won't be relieved by longer trains to Hounslow and Windsor.

It actually said the first 36 carriages, which would also be incorrect as it would be impossible

 

[Goldfish62]

If/when anyone knows the timings of the first passenger runs on 7 March and henceforth please do let us know. I've been waiting to try out one of these trains for a while now!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Maybe he had a prior appointment in Reading or took his wife shopping there...or somebody on Twitter etc mentioned Reading - why bother reading the press release or let facts get in the way?

Given that most things I know about are incorrectly reported in some way, it must therefore mean that most news reports are wrong.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

It actually said the first 36 carriages, which would also be incorrect as it would be impossible

Unless they're also counting a few of the 456s going into service and it's 36 extra carriages in total across the fleets in service on this date?

 

[southern442]

Unless they're also counting a few of the 456s going into service and it's 36 extra carriages in total across the fleets in service on this date?

"SWT had planned to refurbish 60 old carriages from the Gatwick Express service to create 20,000 more rush hour seats by March. Only 36 are expected to enter service next month."

This is the quote from the article. They seem to have made a terrible cock-up editing wise.

 

[Goldfish62]

This is the quote from the article. They seem to have made a terrible cock-up editing wise.

And there won't be an extra 20,000 "seats". Even SWT carefully state that there will be space for an extra 20,000 passengers, not seats. This obsession the media has with a seat for everyone even on the shortest of journeys.

 

[transmanche]

This obsession the media has with a seat for everyone even on the shortest of journeys.

I wouldn't call it an obsession, just an assumption. An incorrect assumption.

 

[bb21]

An irresponsible assumption and lazy journalism.