Class 458/5

[hassaanhc]

Covering the 6 or 10 up means that the markers only show 4 car or 8 car, which suggests a single 458/5 at 5 coaches has to use the 8 car mark, while running in multiple means there are 10 coaches and the marker shows only up to 8. Or (as usual :P) have I completely missed something?

 

[455driver]

There was also a 2x450 on the 18:13 to Shepperton.

That is booked to be a 8x450 because on arrival back at Waterloo it forms the 2015 to Haslemere.

 

[Matt Taylor]

That was possibly my favourite shift when I was at Strawberry Hill, pass to Waterloo on the ECS, take the 450s to Sheppy and back, a quick spin to Hampton Court and take another 450 to Windsor and empties back.

 

[samuelmorris]

Covering the 6 or 10 up means that the markers only show 4 car or 8 car, which suggests a single 458/5 at 5 coaches has to use the 8 car mark, while running in multiple means there are 10 coaches and the marker shows only up to 8. Or (as usual :P) have I completely missed something?

Yeah sorry, that does make sense. At the time I was pointing out that 6 cars wouldn't have anything to do with the 458s, but of course covering them up only leaves the option for 4s and 8s.

 

[455driver]

That was possibly my favourite shift when I was at Strawberry Hill, pass to Waterloo on the ECS, take the 450s to Sheppy and back, a quick spin to Hampton Court and take another 450 to Windsor and empties back.

VZ209 by any chance?

 

[Bigfoot]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R91460/2014/01/31/advanced

Another 458 off for conversion?

 

[Goldfish62]

Are they actually going to enter service any time soon? It's getting a bit farcical now.

 

[Monty]

We should see a limited introduction come February - March, it's easy to forget how bad the condition of these units were in. Up to 25% of the bodywork had to be replaced on some of the vehicles. There is also some doubt if we will get all 36 units, as the two ex luggage vans are apparently in a right sorry state.

 

[455driver]

There is also some doubt if we will get all 36 units, as the two ex luggage vans are apparently in a right sorry state.

Surely they can just use 2 of the (otherwise scrap) ex luggage van bodyshells?

Thyere are 4 being scrapped arent there?

 

[Bigfoot]

Surely they can just use 2 of the (otherwise scrap) ex luggage van bodyshells?

Thyere are 4 being scrapped arent there?

4 being kept for spares and repairs if memory serves. I was under the impression that the 6 460 conversions were complete but just being stored elsewhere to do modifications required due to faults found on the initial 5000 mile testing. Don't think the park could cope with an extra 30 coaches just sat about all day every day...

 

[Goldfish62]

We should see a limited introduction come February - March, it's easy to forget how bad the condition of these units were in. Up to 25% of the bodywork had to be replaced on some of the vehicles. There is also some doubt if we will get all 36 units, as the two ex luggage vans are apparently in a right sorry state.

Thanks for the update. I see the crew training runs are now going right through to Waterloo (P20).

Presumably it would be the last two of the full ex-460s that wouldn't arrive. SWT have three and the 4th appears to be about ready.

I wonder if the 458s are in the same state once stripped back.

 

[Railengineer]

Are they actually going to enter service any time soon? It's getting a bit farcical now.

nothing farcical about making sure they work properly before inflicting 'em on the travelling public is there? Would you complain if they didn't work right?

 

[Monty]

Surely they can just use 2 of the (otherwise scrap) ex luggage van bodyshells?

Thyere are 4 being scrapped arent there?

The other side of the story I have been hearing is with the amount of work required on them in addition to the issues with the corrosion questions are being raised on if converting the vehicles is worth the hassle.

Thanks for the update. I see the crew training runs are now going right through to Waterloo (P20).

Presumably it would be the last two of the full ex-460s that wouldn't arrive. SWT have three and the 4th appears to be about ready.

I wonder if the 458s are in the same state once stripped back.

I would imagine so, but nothing has been decided yet. Though I would imagine you could at least make a 5th ex460 unit from the remaining vehicles. I guess we'll have to wait and see on that one, they may decided to press ahead with all 6 units regardless.

When the rebuilt 458/0s arrive they are going to be sufficiently different to warrant a seperate subclass of their own but I won't go on into any great detail about it.

As for the state of the 458/0s I would not be surprised in the slightest if they needed just as much work as the former Gatwick units, after all it is easy to forget these units are approaching 17 years old and have had very little work done do them externally, a refresh of first class and modifications to the toilets doesn't really count.

 

[Goldfish62]

The other side of the story I have been hearing is with the amount of work required on them in addition to the issues with the corrosion questions are being raised on if converting the vehicles is worth the hassle.

As for the state of the 458/0s I would not be surprised in the slightest if they needed just as much work as the former Gatwick units, after all it is easy to forget these units are approaching 17 years and have had very little work done do them externally, a refresh of first class and modifications to the toilets doesn't really count.

Given that the windows of the 458s leak when its raining I wouldn't be surprised if there's serious corrosion around the window frames.

The curse of Alstom strikes again. Even though the 458s have been turned in fantastically reliable trains through a lot of hard work by SWT they are essentially poorly designed and built heaps of junk.

 

[WarrenTManager]

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/R91460/2014/01/31/advanced

Another 458 off for conversion?

8001 went off up north to join 8002. I heard rumour 8502 might be near painting.

 

[Brian Aylott]

8001 went off up north to join 8002. I heard rumour 8502 might be near painting.

Well that wouldn't be too surprising for they're painted immediately following the first job after stripping ie corrosion repairs (and maybe it is only the first vehicle that's reached that stage)
Brian

 

[West Ruislip]

Looks as if the first 458/5 may enter service this month if this blog posting is correct:

http://railpicturelibrary.zenfolio....ains-says-458/5s-may-enter-service-this-month

 

[Smod]

I'm not an expert on these things, so please be patient with me.

It's clear that the body shells of these units have got into a shocking state.

I'm sure there's a strict maintenance regime with regular checks to ensure nothing on the underside of a carriage fractures and risks a derailment. But what about the bodyshells?

I was wondering whether the corrosion issues now identified could affect the structural integrity of a carriage. Presumably there comes a point where this might be the case (and I appreciate the this might be beyond the state they are in at present). But to discover that a carriage is severely corroded only when you refurbish it seems odd to me.

But as I say I'm not an expert!

 

[455driver]

Most of the body strength is actually in the framework, there is very little strength in the actual skin.

 

[Waldgrun]

Going off thread slightly, but I feel I have to ask, if these units 458 and 460 body work is in poor state, what state are Scot Rails class 334 unit in?

 

[jopsuk]

A good question, the 458s/460s afterall have never been to Saltcoats in a storm...

 

[Fudgefrog]

Looks as if the first 458/5 may enter service this month if this blog posting is correct:

http://railpicturelibrary.zenfolio....ains-says-458/5s-may-enter-service-this-month

Surprisingly strongly worded statement regarding Alstom and Porterbrook. While it may not be an industry secret of where blame lies, I find it deeply surprising an official spokesman would be so damning in a public statement.

 

[jopsuk]

It really is VERY forthright

 

[Goldfish62]

Surprisingly strongly worded statement regarding Alstom and Porterbrook. While it may not be an industry secret of where blame lies, I find it deeply surprising an official spokesman would be so damning in a public statement.

It's uncannily like the first time round with the 458s.

I notice Real Time Trains that there are no training runs planned (as yet) this week. Wonder if that means service entry is about to start.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

It's uncannily like the first time round with the 458s.

Well, perhaps in a few years they'll be winning Golden Spanners then!

 

[Monty]

It's uncannily like the first time round with the 458s.

I notice Real Time Trains that there are no training runs planned (as yet) this week. Wonder if that means service entry is about to start.

I would imagine it's more to do with the flooding in the Staines area, with the Windsor line already badly affected and the chance that the Weybridge and Reading lines also being severed nobody wants a train that doesn't need to be there getting in the way.

That said I think the initial training for the first 40 guards is now complete, so you may see the first pair of units on a limited service in the near future.

 

[TEW]

Presumably we'll see them on Waterloo-Windsor services first? The majority of the Windsor services are booked 8-car 450s all day so no splitting and joining involved unlike a lot of the other Windsor line diagrams.

 

[Goldfish62]

I would imagine it's more to do with the flooding in the Staines area, with the Windsor line already badly affected and the chance that the Weybridge and Reading lines also being severed nobody wants a train that doesn't need to be there getting in the way.

Hmmm. If SWT are catering for all "what ifs" I wonder if we'll ever see them (or the 456s) introduced...

 

[Juniper Driver]

Looks as if the first 458/5 may enter service this month if this blog posting is correct:

http://railpicturelibrary.zenfolio....ains-says-458/5s-may-enter-service-this-month

Well they better be a bit sharpish with my one day conversion then.:-x

 

[Bigfoot]

Hmmm. If SWT are catering for all "what ifs" I wonder if we'll ever see them (or the 456s) introduced...

Crew training is well underway and on schedule. Expect them in southern green on the Guildford to Ascot line from the end of March...