Class 455 to Basingstoke

[adc82140]

During the early 90s, I have a vague memory of travelling on a Class 455 on a Basingstoke stopper during a time of disruption. Would this ever have happened, or am I misremembering?

 

[JonathanH]

During the early 90s, I have a vague memory of travelling on a Class 455 on a Basingstoke stopper during a time of disruption. Would this ever have happened, or am I misremembering?

Class 455 to Basingstoke is rare, but certainly possible.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

They were/are cleared to Basingstoke, as they need to get to Bournemouth depot for overhauls, although never diagrammed in passenger service to Basingstoke in the permanent basis. They may well have worked there during times of disruption or industrial action, when temporary timetables were introduced for such reasons.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

During 2002 I frequently travelled between Waterloo and Kingston/Surbiton/Hampton Court. If heading to Surbiton of an evening I'd aim for the Basingstoke services which ran fast from Waterloo to Surbiton which were usually slammers, but every now and then they'd throw up a 455.

The Hampton Court flower show was always a blessing, as the 442s on the Weymouth/Portsmouth fasts called additionally at Surbiton.

 

[RichJF]

Related to Basingstoke, did they ever reach Haselmere too?

Basingstoke & Haselmere are two stations that are "just" beyond the metro area but feel like they're still the last stop on metro service.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

Related to Basingstoke, did they ever reach Haselmere too?

Again, cleared as far down the PDL as Haslemere, but never diagrammed South of Guildford in the permanent plan.

 

[adc82140]

More common than I thought then!

 

[nw1]

Again, cleared as far down the PDL as Haslemere, but never diagrammed South of Guildford in the permanent plan.

I'm sure I recall one year in which there was a new 0600 stopper from Haslemere to Waterloo, which, when introduced was actually diagrammed 455. Perhaps the first train of the day from Haslemere. I think it was introduced in the latter days of slam door stock, sometime between 1999 and 2004. I don't think it lasted so long, replaced by a through working from Portsmouth (in fact I have the winter 03/04 CWN, and it doesn't exist on that). Or am I just dreaming this?

(I never saw it, just remember hearing about it on a rail forum).

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I'm sure I recall one year in which there was a new 0600 stopper from Haslemere to Waterloo, which, when introduced was actually diagrammed 455. Perhaps the first train of the day from Haslemere. I think it was introduced in the latter days of slam door stock, sometime between 1999 and 2004.

I won't say that didn't happen, as back then (not withstanding my faded memory after all this time ), it is likely it would have been part of a rolling introduction of the Desiro fleet. This is where the base permanent plan (as in May to Dec and Dec to May) would still form the main document that everyone adhered to. Normal practice was for weekly alterations to same, to be issued via Altered Carriage Working Notices, but if any alterations (especially SX) were liable to last for several consecutive weeks, but were still of a temporary nature overall (ie during the cascade introduction of a new stock type), a 'Special Notice' might be issued, which was an amendment to the base plan in itself, but had to be read in conjunction with other ACWN's for any given date(s). The idea was to save what might have been a fairly large volume of alterations, identical for several weeks, having to be reissued numerous times for several weeks.

There was also another type of amendment specifically intended for changes to the base plan that would in due course (at the next timetable change, May or Dec) form part of that base (permanent) plan. These amendments could only be issued to apply at and from certain intervals during any base timetable, for crew related reasons.

 

[nw1]

I won't say that didn't happen, as back then (not withstanding my faded memory after all this time ), it is likely it would have been part of a rolling introduction of the Desiro fleet. This is where the base permanent plan (as in May to Dec and Dec to May) would still form the main document that everyone adhered to. Normal practice was for weekly alterations to same, to be issued via Altered Carriage Working Notices, but if any alterations (especially SX) were liable to last for several consecutive weeks, but were still of a temporary nature overall (ie during the cascade introduction of a new stock type), a 'Special Notice' might be issued, which was an amendment to the base plan in itself, but had to be read in conjunction with other ACWN's for any given date(s). The idea was to save what might have been a fairly large volume of alterations, identical for several weeks, having to be reissued numerous times for several weeks.

Ah ok. As it happens the CWNs from early 2004 I have were both short-term duration: one is mid-Jan to mid-March and the other mid-March to mid-May. I haven't scoured them in detail to find the differences but most of the main-line workings seem to be the same between the two.

Both still had slam-doors working almost all services on the Direct, the only exception being a couple of 442 diagrams. There's no 0600 from Haslemere on either, whether 455 or not, but there is an 0514 from Portsmouth (2P04) which could have been the 0600 now starting back from Portsmouth, as I think I remembered.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

As it happens the CWNs from early 2004 I have were both short-term duration: one is mid-Jan to mid-March and the other mid-March to mid-May.

Based on those dates, both will have been of the latter type I mentioned, namely 'P.A. (permanent Alteration)', to be applied STP (Short term wise) until the next major TT change, ie May, when said alterations will have been included in the perm plan.

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 2 Apr 2023 ==

but there is an 0514 from Portsmouth

This is in danger of veering OT, but just to comment on your last remark, you may be correct, my memory is faded and not having kept any of my CWN's from early 2000's wouldn't like to comment. The earliest of that period I did keep a copy of is 2010, and by then the 0600 Haslemere was a 5 car 444, as was the 0519 Portsmouth Harbour. Separate trains, due in to Waterloo at 0706 & 0710 respectively (WTT).
During the leaf fall season, the Haslemere started at 0557 and the Portsmouth Harbour at 0514.
By 2015, but also by the time of a draft 10 car suburban CWN dated Jan 2014, the Haslemere was diagrammed for 8 car 450 and the Portsmouth 10 car 444, a clear sign that things had to change due to increasing passenger footfall.

 

[nw1]

This is in danger of veering OT, but just to comment on your last remark, you may be correct, my memory is faded and not having kept any of my CWN's from early 2000's wouldn't like to comment. The earliest of that period I did keep a copy of is 2010, and by then the 0600 Haslemere was a 5 car 444, as was the 0519 Portsmouth Harbour. Separate trains, due in to Waterloo at 0706 & 0710 respectively (WTT).

Ah, so if there was an 0600 Haslemere in 2010, it's possible it was actually introduced in the Desiro era. I will confess I can't remember the exact date. Possible also that it was a 455 (or two) for a short time, to bring things vaguely back on topic.

I've just realised I have a CWN from 2007 and a document of 455 diagrams from 2006 (both downloaded from the UK Modern EMU groups.io group before it disappeared). The 2007 CWN also had the 0600 as a 444, while the service did not appear in the 455 diagrams of 2006. So if it did exist, it was evidently in a two-year window. Perhaps it's becoming increasingly likely I mis-remembered it!

During the leaf fall season, the Haslemere started at 0557 and the Portsmouth Harbour at 0514.
By 2015, but also by the time of a draft 10 car suburban CWN dated Jan 2014, the Haslemere was diagrammed for 8 car 450 and the Portsmouth 10 car 444, a clear sign that things had to change due to increasing passenger footfall.

FWIW the early 2004 version of the 0514 Portsmouth Harbour was a 12Cig, but I guess it was split into two trains later with the introduction of the 0600.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

I've just realised I have a CWN from 2007

Is the 0710 Haslemere still shown as a 10 car 444 in that issue, out of curiosity?

 

[nw1]

Is the 0710 Haslemere still shown as a 10 car 444 in that issue, out of curiosity?

No, it's 12 450, arriving empty from Farnham depot.

For clarification this CWN is dated 5 Feb 2007, so it's presumably an amendment to the 2006/07 winter/spring timetable.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

That would have been a P.A. date, thanks. Couldn't remember when that train changed, but do remember as a 10 car the isles and vestibules were full and standing from Guildford, and those at Worplesdon had a fight to get on, some being left behind on occasions.

 

[nw1]

That would have been a P.A. date, thanks. Couldn't remember when that train changed, but do remember as a 10 car the isles and vestibules were full and standing from Guildford, and those at Worplesdon had a fight to get on, some being left behind on occasions.

Digging around there's also a 444 workings spreadsheet from 2006 (exact date unknown) amongst the CWNs I downloaded. (No 450 equivalent, though).

The 0710 isn't present there either, though there is an 0739 from Haslemere which was a 10 444.

Interestingly the 2006 timetable seemed to be exclusively 444 off-peak on the Portsmouth Direct, while in 2007 450s came in. I think this co-incides with the removal of 442s from the SWML.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

444 workings spreadsheet from 2006

Might be able to comment if I could see it?

 

[nw1]

OK, will send it to you.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

Related to Basingstoke, did they ever reach Haselmere too?

Basingstoke & Haselmere are two stations that are "just" beyond the metro area but feel like they're still the last stop on metro service.

Do you think? Guildford would be that for me, or Woking on services that continue towards Brookwood.

It's worth noting that the 2145 London Waterloo to Haslemere is booked for a single Class 458. Today it is worked by 458520. Not the only 458 serving Guildford today either, as a pair are on via Epsoms today.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

It's worth noting that the 2145 London Waterloo to Haslemere is booked for a single Class 458

This sort of (stock) move was for many, many years, driven by the SX service requirements, and the physical stabling space available. Farnham being the long standing 'base' for the peak time Camberley Line through services to/from Waterloo, IIRC was never a simple stock balance (in this case 458's), as I believe there were three UP services (a.m) but only two DOWN (p.m), meaning one remaining set of appropriate stock had to be balanced to Farnham. For a time this was achieved via the 2153 (?) to Alton, bounce back to Woking, then down to Farnham on 00.40. Perhaps the TT has changed these days, so the 2145 to Haslemere is the best option. Has to be remembered, any other solution would likely involve the cost of a driver to run an empty train, and in todays climate........need I say more!