Class 455/7

[class701]

Can you believe that it's nearly 2025 and the class 455/7 are still in regular SWR service with an old surplus class 313/508 coach inserted.

That's up there with the 'temporary' WWII bomb damaged bridge repair over the southwestern mainline, from Clapham junction to Battersea Park and Victoria.

 

[zwk500]

Lewisham flyover usually gets mentioned in lists of longest 'temporary' fixes. Built after the 1957 crash, still in use.

 

[The exile]

Can you believe that it's nearly 2025 and the class 455/7 are still in regular SWR service with an old surplus class 313/508 coach inserted.

That's up there with the 'temporary' WWII bomb damaged bridge repair over the southwestern mainline, from Clapham junction to Battersea Park and Victoria.

In both cases, why not? (they are 508 coaches, btw). It is the failure to get new trains (how long have the 701s been as good as idle - that’s the scandal) to work properly that means that the ones that do have to be kept going longer than intended. As for the bridge - if it’s safe and does the job it’s meant to do, what’s the fuss? Plenty of other “temporary fixes” still going strong all over the world!

 

[Islineclear3_1]

Remind me how old the surviving HSTs are ... weren't they originally meant to be "temporary?"

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Remind me how old the surviving HSTs are ... weren't they originally meant to be "temporary?"

Depending on your perspective, everything is temporary...

Whilst the 455/7s may look odd with their one mismatched 508 coach, there's no reason they would become life expired significantly sooner than the other subfleets- though I can't recall which order they were built in.
Being made of aluminium, if anything the 508 cars should really last longer than the other 455 vehicles which are steel-bodied.

 

[The exile]

Depending on your perspective, everything is temporary...

Whilst the 455/7s may look odd with their one mismatched 508 coach, there's no reason they would become life expired significantly sooner than the other subfleets- though I can't recall which order they were built in.
Being made of aluminium, if anything the 508 cars should really last longer than the other 455 vehicles which are steel-bodied.

I believe the new build 455/7 vehicles are a couple of years younger than the 455/8s. The 508 vehicles will be 3 or 4 years older.

 

[norbitonflyer]

I believe the new build 455/7 vehicles are a couple of years younger than the 455/8s. The 508 vehicles will be 3 or 4 years older.

Indeed the 455/8s were introduced in 1982, the 455/7s in 1984 and the 455/9s in 1985. The 508s from 1979

 

[Mike_L_Surrey]

Indeed the 455/8s were introduced in 1982, the 455/7s in 1984 and the 455/9s in 1985. The 508s from 1979

I’ve always wondered why the 455 sub-classes started from 455/7 rather than 455/1.

Is that because some other rail vehicle was using those numbers ?

Also, why didn’t the SWR/SWT 455’s get reclassified after they were refurbished in 2004/05 or re-motored in 2013-14?

Seems there would have been several differences then between the SWR 455’s and their Southern counterparts .

 

[norbitonflyer]

I’ve always wondered why the 455 sub-classes started from 455/7 rather than 455/1.

Is that because some other rail vehicle was using those numbers ?

Indeed it was - there were plenty of 4EPBs using the 50xx to 56xx range, and formerly 2EPBs in the 56xx and 57xx range. Indeed, before the 57xx EPBs were renumbered in the 62xx range (64xx when refurbished), there was a short period in 1984/85 when the two varieties of 57xx co-existed, albeit on different parts of the Southern.

50xx-52xx - original 4EPBs (class 415/1) built on SR jigs (some trailers were ex 4SUB)
53xx - 4EPB - BR standard design (class 415/2)
54xx - 4EPB - refurbished 415/1s
55xx - 4EPB - temporary re-formations of 415/1s with two all-compartment trailers coaches - restricted to peak hour use so that all-open units could be used off peaks: this was done following a murder in an all-compartment coach.
56xx - originally SR-design 2HAPs (414/1, later converted to 2SAP class 418/1) and 2EPB (416/1), number series later re-used for refurbished 415/2s
57xx - BR design 2 EPBs (class 416/2, later renumbered in the 62xx range)
59xx - 2SAP (class 418/2 and 418/3, downgraded BR-type class 414/2 and 414/3 2HAPs)

 

[172007]

Can you believe that it's nearly 2025 and the class 455/7 are still in regular SWR service with an old surplus class 313/508 coach inserted.

That's up there with the 'temporary' WWII bomb damaged bridge repair over the southwestern mainline, from Clapham junction to Battersea Park and Victoria.

Not sure why the "Can you believe it's nearly 2025" line.

This just shows the societal division between London, the South East and the rest of the country tbh. Class 15x's, Chiltern Mk3's there is plenty of old stuff around the rest of the country and we just roll our eyes and get on with it. If we don't have old stuff it's a once an hour service with last trains at 21:00 ish in a Saturday night home.

 

[Big Jumby 74]

508 cars still look reasonable. Took this as dated. The one thing that still catches people out I find, is that the door release buttons seldom respond to a momentary 'prod', but need to be pushed and held for a couple of seconds!

 

[The exile]

Not sure why the "Can you believe it's nearly 2025" line.

This just shows the societal division between London, the South East and the rest of the country tbh. Class 15x's, Chiltern Mk3's there is plenty of old stuff around the rest of the country and we just roll our eyes and get on with it. If we don't have old stuff it's a once an hour service with last trains at 21:00 ish in a Saturday night home.

Think it’s more a sign of years and years of societal brainwashing by advertising that results in people thinking they need a new “whatever” just because theirs hasn’t got the latest bells and whistles, even if the bells and whistles they have got do the job perfectly well. They are being replaced, and I bet it won’t be long before people wish they still had them!

 

[Mike_L_Surrey]

Indeed it was - there were plenty of 4EPBs using the 50xx to 56xx range, and formerly 2EPBs in the 56xx and 57xx range. Indeed, before the 57xx EPBs were renumbered in the 62xx range (64xx when refurbished), there was a short period in 1984/85 when the two varieties of 57xx co-existed, albeit on different parts of the Southern.

50xx-52xx - original 4EPBs (class 415/1) built on SR jigs (some trailers were ex 4SUB)
53xx - 4EPB - BR standard design (class 415/2)
54xx - 4EPB - refurbished 415/1s
55xx - 4EPB - temporary re-formations of 415/1s with two all-compartment trailers coaches - restricted to peak hour use so that all-open units could be used off peaks: this was done following a murder in an all-compartment coach.
56xx - originally SR-design 2HAPs (414/1, later converted to 2SAP class 418/1) and 2EPB (416/1), number series later re-used for refurbished 415/2s
57xx - BR design 2 EPBs (class 416/2, later renumbered in the 62xx range)
59xx - 2SAP (class 418/2 and 418/3, downgraded BR-type class 414/2 and 414/3 2HAPs)

Thanks NorbitonFlyer

 

[Peter Wilde]

Think it’s more a sign of years and years of societal brainwashing by advertising that results in people thinking they need a new “whatever” just because theirs hasn’t got the latest bells and whistles, even if the bells and whistles they have got do the job perfectly well. They are being replaced, and I bet it won’t be long before people wish they still had them!

Some might want them back. But while they have been good basic trains, they have neither aircon nor toilets. Not good enough for services that can take an hour or more end-to-end.

 

[wickham]

Regarding Post #8: There were indeed differences between the South Western and Central 455s after their rspective refurbishing - it was never officially recognised but the two fleets would not multiple after refurbishment and of course there was no requirement for them to do so. The 456s working on the Central at the time were apparently modified to work with the refurbished Central 455s, but when they were transferred to Wimbledon it was found that they would not multiple with the SW refurbished 455s and had to be de-modified to work with them. I beleive that the Central units had some sort of control modifications which meant that some train wires did different things, but the SW units remained in original configuration. Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge can add more ?

 

[Big Jumby 74]

but when they were transferred to Wimbledon it was found that they would not multiple with the SW refurbished 455s and had to be de-modified to work with them.

Scrubbed. Inappropriate 'rant'. Apologies.

 

[CV110]

508 cars still look reasonable. Took this as dated. The one thing that still catches people out I find, is that the door release buttons seldom respond to a momentary 'prod', but need to be pushed and held for a couple of seconds!

Yes, there is a small sticker inside the car above the Open button that says "To open doors, please push and hold this button", although there is no sticker on the outside of the car. People reasonably expect door open buttons to all work in the same way and therefore aren't looking for instructions when they are trying to get in or out of the train!

 

[XCTurbostar]

I have observed a couple of instances at Vauxhall where passengers waited for the doors to open automatically like the Victoria line!

 

[Bikeman78]

508 cars still look reasonable. Took this as dated. The one thing that still catches people out I find, is that the door release buttons seldom respond to a momentary 'prod', but need to be pushed and held for a couple of seconds!

I have just travelled from Reading to Clapham Junction on 5721 and witnessed this happening at almost every stop.

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

Yes, there is a small sticker inside the car above the Open button that says "To open doors, please push and hold this button", although there is no sticker on the outside of the car. People reasonably expect door open buttons to all work in the same way and therefore aren't looking for instructions when they are trying to get in or out of the train!

As a guard on the 455s, it's quite a common occurrence to see passengers trying the door open buttons on the 508 carriage a few times (to no avail), before running down the platform to the next carriage to board.

It also seems to be a relatively common source of complaints, usually along the lines of "The doors didn't open at Station X" - although that may also be due to them being unaware that, unlike the Underground, the doors don't open automatically, as @XCTurbostar has mentioned above.

On a separate note, I find the 508 carriages fantastic during the Summer; the windows tend to let in a much stronger breeze than the conventional 455 carriages.

 

[CV110]

As a guard on the 455s, it's quite a common occurrence to see passengers trying the door open buttons on the 508 carriage a few times (to no avail), before running down the platform to the next carriage to board.

It also seems to be a relatively common source of complaints, usually along the lines of "The doors didn't open at Station X" - although that may also be due to them being unaware that, unlike the Underground, the doors don't open automatically, as @XCTurbostar has mentioned above.

On a separate note, I find the 508 carriages fantastic during the Summer; the windows tend to let in a much stronger breeze than the conventional 455 carriages.

You see this on the inside too, with passengers running to the next set of doors when they think the doors aren't working.

As built, the 455 doors had a vertical pole either side of the opening, which made the doorway even narrower and meant only one person could get on or off at a time. I never understood why they were designed like this and when they were refurbished, the poles were removed, which meant two people could get on or off at the same time. They still feel narrower than the 508 doorways though.

The hopper ventilators in the 508s are bigger and open wider than the 455s, although I've come across occasions when they've been screwed permanently shut!

 

[lxfe_mxtterz]

The hopper ventilators in the 508s are bigger and open wider than the 455s, although I've come across occasions when they've been screwed permanently shut!

There does seem to be quite a few hopper windows on the 508s which refuse to stay shut, which may be the reason why they've been screwed shut.

I've certainly had to tape them shut on occasion during heavy rain to prevent the carriage from getting flooded, although it's never much use as the carriage ends up getting flooded anyway due to the ceilings on the 508s which leak like a sieve.

 

[WarrenTManager]

Regarding Post #8: There were indeed differences between the South Western and Central 455s after their rspective refurbishing - it was never officially recognised but the two fleets would not multiple after refurbishment and of course there was no requirement for them to do so. The 456s working on the Central at the time were apparently modified to work with the refurbished Central 455s, but when they were transferred to Wimbledon it was found that they would not multiple with the SW refurbished 455s and had to be de-modified to work with them. I beleive that the Central units had some sort of control modifications which meant that some train wires did different things, but the SW units remained in original configuration. Perhaps someone with more technical knowledge can add more ?

27 wire did different things post the respective refurbs.

And either 26 or 28, memory a big foggy. Easier to be accurate and say 27 wire.

 

[TT-ONR-NRN]

I feel as though surely these should be withdrawn first as the 701s come into more widespread play. The ex 508 trailers seem far, far more dilapidated than 455 carriages.

 

[D365]

I feel as though surely these should be withdrawn first as the 701s come into more widespread play. The ex 508 trailers seem far, far more dilapidated than 455 carriages.

My understanding is that the 455s - certainly those scrapped thus far - are withdrawn on the basis of reaching their end of their maintenance periodicities. In effect, Wimbledon is eeking out the miles.

 

[Taunton]

I have observed a couple of instances at Vauxhall where passengers waited for the doors to open automatically like the Victoria line!

Still goes on with Elizabeth Line, especially on the Abbey Wood branch where alternate stations (yes, really) beyond Whitechapel are auto open and passenger open.

 

[Bikeman78]

As a guard on the 455s, it's quite a common occurrence to see passengers trying the door open buttons on the 508 carriage a few times (to no avail), before running down the platform to the next carriage to board.

It is surprising that they haven't been modified so that they behave in the same way as the other vehicles in the unit. I'm guessing this problem has existed for the last 40 years.

 

[Transilien]

It is surprising that they haven't been modified so that they behave in the same way as the other vehicles in the unit. I'm guessing this problem has existed for the last 40 years.

I found that most SWR trains have problems with their doors opening including the other 455 carriages and Class 450s. You have to press the button really hard to open them.

 

[Bikeman78]

I found that most SWR trains have problems with their doors opening including the other 455 carriages and Class 450s. You have to press the button really hard to open them.

In my experience, the 450s are just slow. I agree that the pause is just long enough to cause uncertainty.

 

[Mike_L_Surrey]

You see this on the inside too, with passengers running to the next set of doors when they think the doors aren't working.

As built, the 455 doors had a vertical pole either side of the opening, which made the doorway even narrower and meant only one person could get on or off at a time. I never understood why they were designed like this and when they were refurbished, the poles were removed, which meant two people could get on or off at the same time. They still feel narrower than the 508 doorways though.

The hopper ventilators in the 508s are bigger and open wider than the 455s, although I've come across occasions when they've been screwed permanently shut.

I remember how cramped the 455’s seemed pre-refurbishment.

It was so bad at times that if you wanted to get off at Clapham Junction from a London-bound train in the morning, you didn’t dare try sitting down lest you couldn’t get out in time.

I’d often see people get up from seats at Earlsfield to ensure they could stand near the doors for arrival at CJ.