Class 444s

[MidnightFlyer]

Hi,

I did quite extensive travelling on these fine EMUs today (see sig from Sunday), and they are delightful. I love them. They are smooth, clean and quiet. They have a good layout, are airy, and generally a delight to be on. Anyone else?

I know the buffet is out of commission, but, apart from the pain in the a*** announcements and the fact that tables don't line up to windows, but am i the only person who adores them?

Thanks,

Matt

 

[Via Bank]

They are lovely units, I agree. The announcements aren't that bad in the great scheme of things: I've never understood the complaints about there being a "constant barrage" of them. (Something that is worth complaining about is the SDO, and how it only works per-unit rather than per-coach, meaning if a 5-car unit stops at a 4-car platform, only one door on the front coach can be opened. Why, Siemens? Why?)

The buffet area is indeed underused, sadly, but overall they're extremely pleasant units to travel on - clean, comfortable and smooth. Even the bicycle vestibules are nice to stand in. And the traction motors make a brilliant noise.

 

[MCR247]

I love all desiros!

 

[anthony263]

I like the class 444's & class 332/333 units but hate the class 450's

 

[Aictos]

Hi,

I did quite extensive travelling on these fine EMUs today (see sig from Sunday), and they are delightful. I love them. They are smooth, clean and quiet. They have a good layout, are airy, and generally a delight to be on. Anyone else?

I know the buffet is out of commission, but, apart from the pain in the a*** announcements and the fact that tables don't line up to windows, but am i the only person who adores them?

Thanks,

Matt

I've used them before and I quite like them in fact the main reason I like them is because I think they're perfect for what they were designed for and ought to be used on other routes such as Manchester to Scotland, Norwich to London, London to York (semi fast services) etc....

In fact, if the required electrification was already there in the North West, they would have a much better choice then using 185s on the Manchester to Scotland route even more then the 221s.

Class 221 (5 car)

Standard Seats: 224
First Class Seats: 26
Tip Up Seats: 0

Class 444 (5 Car)

Standard Seats: 299
First Class Seats: 35
Tip Up Seats: 0

Class 185 (3 Car)

Standard Seats: 156
First Class Seats: 15
Tip Up Seats: 12

 

[thefab444]

They're pretty good units, and I'd much rather travel on a 444 than a 377 (even one with long distance seating). The buffets are not out of commission but are only used on busy services when a trolley service isn't practical.

Class 444 (5 Car)

Standard Seats: 229
First Class Seats: 35
Tip Up Seats: 0

A 444 seats 299 in standard class.

 

[Juniper Driver]

They are lovely units, I agree. The announcements aren't that bad in the great scheme of things: I've never understood the complaints about there being a "constant barrage" of them. (Something that is worth complaining about is the SDO, and how it only works per-unit rather than per-coach, meaning if a 5-car unit stops at a 4-car platform, only one door on the front coach can be opened. Why, Siemens? Why?)

The buffet area is indeed underused, sadly, but overall they're extremely pleasant units to travel on - clean, comfortable and smooth. Even the bicycle vestibules are nice to stand in. And the traction motors make a brilliant noise.

That's not Siemens AFAIK it's more to do with costing more money.

They are SWT's most reliable units AFAIK.

 

[Aictos]

They're pretty good units, and I'd much rather travel on a 444 than a 377 (even one with long distance seating). The buffets are not out of commission but are only used on busy services when a trolley service isn't practical.



A 444 seats 299 in standard class.

Sorry,

 

[GospelOak117]

Hated them at first, but rather unfairly that was because of what they were replacing. Recently they have grown on me and are a pleasure to ride on daily

 

[Daimler]

Hi,

I did quite extensive travelling on these fine EMUs today (see sig from Sunday), and they are delightful. I love them. They are smooth, clean and quiet. They have a good layout, are airy, and generally a delight to be on. Anyone else?

I know the buffet is out of commission, but, apart from the pain in the a*** announcements and the fact that tables don't line up to windows, but am i the only person who adores them?

Thanks,

Matt

By no means! With their large windows, comfortable seats, and excellent refinement, I've always been a huge fan. I would far sooner be on a 444 than a Pendolino or Voyager.

Britain's most reliable trains too (though I think a fair amount of credit is due to SWT's maintenance staff for this, considering the excellent performance of their fleet as a whole).

As ajax103 has pointed out, they would have made excellent trains for electrified Manchester-Scotland services. A pity the 23m jigs were scrapped after construction of the 444s, really.

 

[Matt Taylor]

After 750 journeys and around 17,000 miles in 444s since 2004 I must say they are pretty good units and in my opinion the best of the post-BR built units. But when compared to the 442s the comparison is not so good, the 442s (with SWT) were quieter, had more tables, had more seats lining up with windows and above all had the 'snug' area next to the buffet.

444s are probably the best EMUs will see for quite some time but it shows just how standards have dropped when the interior of our best EMU is designed to maximise capacity at the expense of customer satisfaction.

 

[thefab444]

444s are probably the best EMUs will see for quite some time but it shows just how standards have dropped when the interior of our best EMU is designed to maximise capacity at the expense of customer satisfaction.

Depends how you measure customer satisfaction. I'd rather have a good chance of getting a mediocre seat than a mediocre chance of getting a good seat.

I will admit that first class on a 444 is a distinct step down from first class on the SWT 442s, both in terms of ambience and seating capacity, although I prefer the actual seats on the 444s.

 

[MrC]

(though I think a fair amount of credit is due to SWT's maintenance staff

Maintained by Siemens themselves at Northam (plus man-inna-van at other locations if required).

As a passenger my main gripes of 444s (and other members of the UK Desiro family) are a harsh ride, especially in the motor coaches, and way too noisy aircon fans. A more minor gripe would be that the lighting can be a bit harsh, especially at night. With those issues fixed they'd be very good indeed.

 

[thefab444]

From my experience, some of the rough riding issues have been cured by the recent bogie overhauls at Eastleigh.

 

[notadriver]

I think they are sluggish but apart from that very nice, especially compared with a battered Class 375!

 

[TGV]

My only complaint is they don't have a pantograph! They would be great on GN services to Peterborough if there was a 25kV version.

 

[387star]

They are BEASTS! Love them!

 

[Inox]

I think they are sluggish but apart from that very nice, especially compared with a battered Class 375!

it maybe the line speed where you're at.

check this out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKlYcVghvWo

 

[Aictos]

My only complaint is they don't have a pantograph! They would be great on GN services to Peterborough if there was a 25kV version.

Or even to Kings Lynn where the buffet really would be ideal, I would easily give up the 321s, 317s on the GN if it meant getting a 444 type to replace them.

Opps nearly forgot, the Thameslink route would have been perfect for them were it not for the restrictions regarding Snow Hill tunnels especially on the Bedford to Brighton run

 

[yummy125]

I enjoy 444's as well, but as they don't stop at my station much I have to put up with 450's.

Last night we had (The Fab 444) from London to Fleet only stopping at Farnborough.

Would be nice to dim the celing lights down a bit at night so its not 2 intense on the eyes.

 

[thefab444]

If we had the power supply to take them at proper power levels then they'd be as fast off the mark as a 350/360, sadly they're somewhat downrated.

Talking of the lights, I travelled on a 444 a few weeks back with only half the lights on which made it much nicer in the dark.

 

[Juniper Driver]

Hated them at first, but rather unfairly that was because of what they were replacing. Recently they have grown on me and are a pleasure to ride on daily

Bit unsure of them at first but I don't mind them.

Had my first breakdown on them last year.It toook just over six years.

If we had the power supply to take them at proper power levels then they'd be as fast off the mark as a 350/360, sadly they're somewhat downrated.

Talking of the lights, I travelled on a 444 a few weeks back with only half the lights on which made it much nicer in the dark.

That's due to the lack of substations at the start and at a guess the aircon uses a fair whack also.Don't know where we stand with substations now as more have been built.Of course you knew that though.

 

[Hydro]

I've not been on a 25kV Desiro yet, but certainly until I travelled on the 395's the 444/450's were the fastest accelerating trains I'd been on. The AC versions must be like **** off a shovel (though after a 395, it won't as impressive; those things SHIFT).

 

[Matt Taylor]

From my experience, some of the rough riding issues have been cured by the recent bogie overhauls at Eastleigh.

The units were overhauled at Eastleigh but the bogies were sent away somewhere:

http://matthew-taylor.fotopic.net/p67265020.html

 

[thefab444]

The units were overhauled at Eastleigh but the bogies were sent away somewhere:

http://matthew-taylor.fotopic.net/p67265020.html

That would explain why the overhauls have been fairly quick then, if the actual bogie work is being done elsewhere and Eastleigh are just swapping in the refurbished ones.

 

[Pumbaa]

I've not been on a 25kV Desiro yet, but certainly until I travelled on the 395's the 444/450's were the fastest accelerating trains I'd been on. The AC versions must be like **** off a shovel (though after a 395, it won't as impressive; those things SHIFT).

They do - a 350/2 at full tilt onto an unrestricted line = . A 350/1 is good as well, but they're about 2 seconds slower to 100.

Seriously, I think the Desiro units are great. I use the 350s a hell of a lot, and both are good at their jobs, apart from when they end up on a run they shouldn't! Good ride, comfy seating, decent windows, decent glass luggage rack.

My gripes with the Desiro family are; noisy air-con, PIS in the centre of the coach rather than at each end (mostly, although in B car there is that arrangement to allow FC their own screen), slow opening doors compared to Electrostar plug doors, and harsh clinical lighting/fixtures in interior.

@JuniperDriver - SDO isn't SWT problem. I think it has been fixed with the 380s, but all Siemens units have SDO 'switches' rather than the ability to lock out doors. A pain in the arse, but it won't get fixed unless they have costly mods to put individual switches in each car!

 

[swt_passenger]

That would explain why the overhauls have been fairly quick then, if the actual bogie work is being done elsewhere and Eastleigh are just swapping in the refurbished ones.

Apart from the bogie exchange, is anything else significant being done? I don't think they are due for anything else major.

 

[Daimler]

Maintained by Siemens themselves at Northam (plus man-inna-van at other locations if required).

Ah right, I wasn't sure about particular arrangements. Nonetheless, SWT must be doing something right, since their fleets dominate the 'league tables'.

 

[NXEA!]

The AC versions must be like **** off a shovel.

But your right, when you compare a 360's acceleration to that of a 321's acceleration over here on the Great Eastern, there really is no contest, the 360's acceleration is quite frankly ridiculous. It seems to depend on the station though, I've noticed that at Shenfield they seem to take their time accelerating (linespeed?) whereas out of platform 10 at Stratford and also at Witham they fly off the mark. Although, that's not always the case, so it may be that some drivers take advantage of the quick acceleration and others don't? Oh, and as for the 444's, personally I think they're the best Electric Units out there. Comfortable, smooth (in my opinion), airy interiors and big windows. My only complaints would be the lack of power sockets in the intermediate carriages and the lighting.

 

[Juniper Driver]

They do - a 350/2 at full tilt onto an unrestricted line = . A 350/1 is good as well, but they're about 2 seconds slower to 100.


@JuniperDriver - SDO isn't SWT problem. I think it has been fixed with the 380s, but all Siemens units have SDO 'switches' rather than the ability to lock out doors. A pain in the arse, but it won't get fixed unless they have costly mods to put individual switches in each car!

Costly mods = More money,they weren't built with the ability to lock out doors as this would cost more money*.I don't think it was Siemens fault that this wasn't fitted.I really need to look at a 350 to see what the difference is.

There are a few things which need looking at on our desiro's (450,444),the call for aid being one and also the egress handles.

Funny the 380's have that familiar squeal.

*=Of course this is my opinion and may be wrong.