Class 444 formation confusion

[heart-of-wessex]

Hello all,

Just numbering the coaching sets on the Railworks simulator Class 444, however I have some conflicting info. I would do a simple check on YouTube but for some reason YT is not working for me at the moment.
The conflicting info is what part the panto well fitted coach is marshalled behind. Direct info from Wiki states:

63851-63895 - DMCO
67201-67245 - TSRMB - fitted with Pantograph Well
67151-67195 - TSO
67101-67145 - TSO
63801-63845 - DMSO

However, from my NREA book, using the Wiki numbers above, the coach types in order are listed as:

63851-63895 - DMSO
67201-67245 - PTSL - fitted with Pantograph Well I guess?
67151-67195 - TSO
67101-67145 - TSO
63801-63845 - DMCO


So as you can see, Wiki states the First Class coach is behind the buffet car, whilst the NREA 2012 book states the First Class car is at the other end by the trailer standard. Which one is correct?

It's been a while since I last went on a 444 and even then I didn't take much notice of the formation, but I thought the First Class coach was next to the buffet, but not too sure on that.

Two things just more out of curiosity:

1. what is the Pantograph Well coach officially known as, as it's interesting to see it referred on Wiki as the TSRMB and the NREA as the PTSL.

2. I've learnt 'Composite' means mixed class accomodation. I always thought the DMCO coach on a 444 was completely First Class, but I guess there is a small section of standard seating to make it a Composite coach?


Sorry for the questions, but I'm sure there are people who are unfortunate to have to travel on these every day (), SWT staff or other people with better knowledge of these units who may be able to answer the above.


Thank you,

James.

 

[Lrd]

Buffet car is first class end.
So its:

London End
First Class
Buffet/Disabled loo
Quiet Coach
Panto Coach with standard loo
End Coach
Country End

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Yes, there is a small bit of standard in the first class carriage, about 2 windows worth, so it is a composite.

I wouldn't mind travelling on the 444s every day; they are far better than anything else in the SWT fleet.

 

[HSTEd]

I look at 444s and see what post-electrification 158/159 replacements should look like.

 

[455driver]

Buffet car is first class end.
So its:

London End
First Class
Buffet/Disabled loo
Quiet Coach
Panto Coach with standard loo
End Coach
Country End

I thought the panto well was above the universal (not disabled ) toilet?

 

[Tom]

I thought the panto well was above the universal (not disabled ) toilet?

It's next to it (well, partially over it too), with the small seating area with 9 seats (2 tables and one on its own) covering the rest of that end.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

So the Panto Well coach just has a universal loo in it basically? The Railworks default consist formation has the Panto Well coach next to the DMCO car, which made me wonder if it's the Panto Well coach that has the RMB section fitted.

Doesn't help that the NREA doesn't list any of the 444 coaches as having a buffet, since the middle car types are just listed as 2 x TSO and 1 x PTSL. Should the well coach be situated behind the DMSO I take it?


Also, as for preferences, sitting on a 444 from Weymouth through to Southampton Central was not my idea of fun especially since my bum didn't agree with the seats! Was much more comfortable in a Class 442. However, I'd say out of the whole current SWT fleet, the 158/159's are the best for comfort in my opinion. If they fitted that interior to a 444, I wouldn't mind the ride then!

 

[Lrd]

I thought the panto well was above the universal (not disabled ) toilet?

Is there three toilets in a 444 then? I think that's what confused me.

 

[heart-of-wessex]

Is there three toilets in a 444 then? I think that's what confused me.

According to SWT on their fleet specs:

1 wheelchair accessible + 3 standard toilets

 

[Tom]

Is there three toilets in a 444 then? I think that's what confused me.

Four.

Two in the same coach as the panto well, one standard towards the first class end next to the buffet. The universal is at the other end. Then one per the other intermediate coaches next to the cycle storage.

 

[Lrd]

Four.

Two in the same coach as the panto well, one standard towards the first class end next to the buffet. The universal is at the other end. Then one per the other intermediate coaches next to the cycle storage.

Ah ok, I obviously spend too much time in the country end motor coach.

 

[Helvellyn]

[FONT=&quot]Class 444 units are formed (from London end) DMCO-TSRMB-TSO(B)-TSO(A)-DMSO
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]63851-63895. DMCO.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Dia. EA306. 35F 24S. 52.0 t.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]67201-67245. TSRMB. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Dia. EK205. 47S 2L (1 Universal) + 2 Wheelchair spaces. 42.0 t.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]67151-67195. TSO(B). [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Dia. EK204. 76S 1L. 41.0 t.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]67101-67145. TSO(A). [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Dia. EK204. 76S 1L. 41.0 t.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]63801-63845. DMSO.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Dia. EA295. 76S. 51.02 t.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It is the TSRMB that has the universal toilet fitted and the pantograph well is located above that and the small seating area, located at the country end of the coach (the area above the three windows nearest the camera here). A standard toilet is located at the London end of the coach, with the buffet and Guard's office at that end too.
[/FONT]

 

[heart-of-wessex]

[FONT=&quot]Class 444 units are formed (from London end) DMCO-TSRMB-TSO(B)-TSO(A)-DMSO
[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]63851-63895. DMCO.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Dia. EA306. 35F 24S. 52.0 t.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]67201-67245. TSRMB. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Dia. EK205. 47S 2L (1 Universal) + 2 Wheelchair spaces. 42.0 t.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]67151-67195. TSO(B). [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Dia. EK204. 76S 1L. 41.0 t.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]67101-67145. TSO(A). [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Dia. EK204. 76S 1L. 41.0 t.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]63801-63845. DMSO.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] Dia. EA295. 76S. 51.02 t.[/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]It is the TSRMB that has the universal toilet fitted and the pantograph well is located above that and the small seating area, located at the country end of the coach (the area above the three windows nearest the camera here). A standard toilet is located at the London end of the coach, with the buffet and Guard's office at that end too.
[/FONT]

That has cleared that up, thank you very much for the detail in the formation, it is most useful

And thank you to everyone else for the help too

 

[cjmillsnun]

Yes, there is a small bit of standard in the first class carriage, about 2 windows worth, so it is a composite.

I wouldn't mind travelling on the 444s every day; they are far better than anything else in the SWT fleet.

They are since they got rid of the 442s, although personally I still prefer the 158/9 fleet.

 

[AndyLandy]

I thought the pantograph well was on the TSRMB, along with the accessible toilet, making the two TSOs identical.

From the London end:
DMCO (Yes, it's a composite, there's some standard class seating in there, but don't go telling everyone! It's a good place for those who know about it to look for a seat!)
TSRMB, guard's office, micro-buffet (that's never open), accessible toilet, and I think another toilet, too. This also has the pan well.
2xTSO, Lots of standard class seating, and a regular toilet.
DMSO, has plug sockets. Useful if you're a standard class traveller who needs to plug something in.

 

[Lockwood]

Plug sockets?!?!!!!!

I find the 444 quiet coach to be the noisiest thing known to man.
It seems to amplify EVERYTHING. That person turning a page in a book? Like a chainsaw going off...

 

[Lrd]

I can't tell you where the sockets are I'm afraid as the less people that know about them the more likely chance I've got at getting one. :P

 

[cjmillsnun]

I can't tell you where the sockets are I'm afraid as the less people that know about them the more likely chance I've got at getting one. :P

Indeed. Don't share the info about the plug sockets...

 

[Matt Taylor]

There are two perfectly safe ones to use that I can think of. I do however have a selective memory at the moment.

There are three standard opens like this:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40172673@N03/8073694958/in/photostream

Also as mentioned the composite and the accessible coach with the TMO and micro buffet. Plugs are in the front and rear coaches only.

 

[swt_passenger]

None of the info on page 1 of this thread matches what is actually on the carriage data panels though. I think the problem is that various reference books attempt to standardise their nomenclature, to make comparison across stocks easier, but surely the primary information is the way Siemens actually describe the carriages, which is as follows:

DMOC
(P)TOSLW
TOSLB1
TOSLB2
DMOS

I'm not saying the codes Helvellyn posted are wrong, just that there are other codes in use out there.

Interestingly, the data panels do not mention the buffet, and the 'B' must logically refer to the 'bicycle' spaces?

 

[transmanche]

Indeed. Don't share the info about the plug sockets...

The first rule about plug socket club is...

 

[D6975]

Are the mini buffets ever actually used?
I've travelled on 444s down Bournemouth/Soton way quite a bit of late and never seen one in use.

 

[swt_passenger]

Are the mini buffets ever actually used?

If the train is so busy that the trolley cannot move through they will usually park it up by the mini buffet door and use the counter instead, but AFAICT they never use the buffet otherwise.

 

[Matt Taylor]

They are only used as storage/serving areas for the trolley when the train is busy, in fact only the old school Rail Gourmet staff have the required keys.