Class 442s

[Fincra5]

Wouldn't it be possible to fit a few 73s with Dellner couplers for operation with class 444s/450s

They managed to fit out a 73 so it could tow an eurostar so i don't see why not.

 

[fgwrich]

They managed to fit out a 73 so it could tow an eurostar so i don't see why not.

Yes, but the 73 wouldnt be powerfull enough to haul a rather heavy 444/450 all the way around basingstoke/Andover/Romsey/Sotton and still provide the power for all the interior lights, power sockets, sliding plug doors, toilets, PA system etc...

Plus the Dellner coupling attachment is really more to resuce a failed train than haul it on diversian, Afterall, how you try to attach the jumper cables on the 73 to a Desiros dellner?

 

[SWT Driver]

It would probably need a translator vehicle for the conversion, rather than just an EDL.

 

[RobShipway]

Wasn't there Dellner couplings put on the Class 73's that are in use moving the Eurostar trains?

 

[Fincra5]

Wasn't there Dellner couplings put on the Class 73's that are in use moving the Eurostar trains?

No.
"As part of the introduction of Eurostar services between the UK and Mainland Europe, a pair of Class 73/1s were rebuilt by Crewe Works with hinged Scharfenberg couplers, enabling the locos to couple directly to a Eurostar. The complex equipment was a 'bolt-on' to the locos front end and consisted of a buffer beam, brake pipes, headlight unit and MU connections, vacuum brake equipment was removed. The two locos are usually kept at North Pole depot and are used as depot pilots or to haul full or part Eurostar sets on the main line."

http://www.therailwaycentre.com/Pages Loco/Recognition loco/Illus_73.html

 

[RobShipway]

Thank you for the info Fincra5.

 

[Aictos]

Here's a photo from the site as well:

 

[class 455 boy]

sorry to be bumping this, but are there loads of spare 460's? because if 442's replace them, that will mean 3 trains replacing 8 trains, or won't they be coupled?

 

[hotelmode]

sorry to be bumping this, but are there loads of spare 460's? because if 442's replace them, that will mean 3 trains replacing 8 trains, or won't they be coupled?

No but most of the 442 sit out the off peak in various sidings and most of the 460s sit out the morning and evening peaks similarly. Simply make the Gatex 442 diagrams run all day and problem solved.

 

[SWT Driver]

Once the last of the 442's that were stored at Eastleigh have been through the works at Wolverton & been refurbished then Southern will have a full fleet of 24 units, so if you have 8 on the GatEx cycle, that still leaves 16 units over.

The chances are that the rest will be used on Brighton Express services, so that would take another 8-10 out, so that will still leave 6-8, 442's doing other work.

The 460's will be sort of redundant, so they might be transferred to SWT, who already have a fleet of 30x458 units, which are more or less identical in specification to the 460's, there are some technical differences & obviously the cabs are different, but underneath they're the same unit, Onix traction systems etc...

 

[Fincra5]

Once the last of the 442's that were stored at Eastleigh have been through the works at Wolverton & been refurbished then Southern will have a full fleet of 24 units, so if you have 8 on the GatEx cycle, that still leaves 16 units over.

The chances are that the rest will be used on Brighton Express services, so that would take another 8-10 out, so that will still leave 6-8, 442's doing other work.

The 460's will be sort of redundant, so they might be transferred to SWT, who already have a fleet of 30x458 units, which are more or less identical in specification to the 460's, there are some technical differences & obviously the cabs are different, but underneath they're the same unit, Onix traction systems etc...

There was somewhting mentioned about that. But as i said before the 442s are doing the wrong work, they arent designed for airport duties. Where as the class 460s are. It was a stupid idea to replace them. But some as sheduled to be used in brighton express services. But wont be painted in southern green, they are just going to have the "gatwick" part removed from the "gatwick express" branding

 

[hotelmode]

Once the last of the 442's that were stored at Eastleigh have been through the works at Wolverton & been refurbished then Southern will have a full fleet of 24 units, so if you have 8 on the GatEx cycle

Assuming they stay in 10 car sets, they'll need 14 on Gatwick express rotations. Plus how ever many extra the peak extensions need, I dont think they'll be that many spares.

 

[Fincra5]

Assuming they stay in 10 car sets, they'll need 14 on Gatwick express rotations. Plus how ever many extra the peak extensions need, I dont think they'll be that many spares.

It is most likely though that they will operate as 5car units. Given that gatwick express doesn't appear very busy. (excluding the extentions to brighton)

 

[Pumbaa]

It is most likely though that they will operate as 5car units. Given that gatwick express doesn't appear very busy. (excluding the extentions to brighton)

Can be very busy indeed. Just watch for a big bunch of flights arriving at the same time. Also, evening flights generate a lot of mid-afternoon passengers from Victoria.

 

[SWT Driver]

So one or two units sit in Gatwick sidings, a train comes up from Brighton or Eastbourne as a 5, a further 5 attaches & goes up as a 10 from Gatwick. Simples!

Don't say it can't be done because it can, as I used to do it on a regular basis either combining or dividing at Southampton or Bomo, the impact on timings is minimal.

 

[Fincra5]

I know for sure that a couple will be used on brighton express services.

 

[class 455 boy]

just out of interest, are the gangways passenger operational

 

[hotelmode]

So one or two units sit in Gatwick sidings, a train comes up from Brighton or Eastbourne as a 5, a further 5 attaches & goes up as a 10 from Gatwick. Simples!

Wasnt that the original proposal in the Brighton line RUS that got put in the too difficult tray? Hence the muddle of doubling up on stock for peak/off peak we currently enjoy. Anyway with the exception of the Brighton express services (which dont stop at Gatwick) all the Mainline services have already been formed of 2 portions (either at Haywards Heath or Horsham) before they get to Gatwick, so it will mean a total recast of the entire Brighton mainline/coastway timetable.

 

[MCR247]

I remember doing a southern downlander and saw the same 442 sitting in Threee Bridges platform all day.

 

[CCF23]

Once the last of the 442's that were stored at Eastleigh have been through the works at Wolverton & been refurbished then Southern will have a full fleet of 24 units, so if you have 8 on the GatEx cycle, that still leaves 16 units over.

The chances are that the rest will be used on Brighton Express services, so that would take another 8-10 out, so that will still leave 6-8, 442's doing other work.

The 460's will be sort of redundant, so they might be transferred to SWT, who already have a fleet of 30x458 units, which are more or less identical in specification to the 460's, there are some technical differences & obviously the cabs are different, but underneath they're the same unit, Onix traction systems etc...

Anyone know when the above changes will take place i'd love to do Brighton on a 442

 

[Juniper Driver]

I'd love to take a 460 down to Reading but get rid of the long nose,not needed.

 

[hotelmode]

I remember doing a southern downlander and saw the same 442 sitting in Threee Bridges platform all day.

Thats right, 2 ten car rakes sit at Three Bridges between the peaks and are replaced by 2 460s during the evening peak.

 

[MCR247]

Oh right that makes sense assuming you mean they replace 2 460?

 

[thelem]

Thats right, 2 ten car rakes sit at Three Bridges between the peaks and are replaced by 2 460s during the evening peak.

Why Three Bridges? Do they do a Gatwick - Victoria before their Victoria - Brighton? I thought they only did one return journey per day.

 

[hotelmode]

Why Three Bridges? Do they do a Gatwick - Victoria before their Victoria - Brighton? I thought they only did one return journey per day.

Much easier to swap round at Gatwick as it avoids 2 unnecessary ECS paths into and out of Victoria per train.

They do a lot more than 1 round trip, heres the diagrams from the southern yahoo group.

1A31 6.32 Brighton-Victoria 7.35
1D34 8.00 Victoria-Gatwick Airport 8.30
5D34 8+35 Gatwick-Lovers Walk 9+15
5D07 16+32 Lovers Walk-Gatwick 17+15
1D07 17.20 Gatwick-Victoria 17.52
1A60 18.15 Victoria-Brighton 19.22

1A33 6.40 Brighton-Victoria 7.50
1D36 8.15 Victoria-Gatwick 8.45
5D36 8+50 Gatwick-Three Bridges 8+55
5D01 16+21 Three Bridges-Gatwick 16+27
1D01 16.35 Gatwick-Victoria 17.05
1A52 17.30 Victoria-Brighton 18.34
5A52 18+44 Brighton-Gatwick 19+31
1D25 19.35 Gatwick-Victoria 20.05
1D36 20.30 Victoria-Gatwick 21.00
1D41 21.20 Gatwick-Victoria 21.50
ECS to Stewarts Lane?

1A37 6.56 Brighton-Victoria 8.05
1D38 8.30 Victoria-Gatwick 9.00
5H36 9+09 Gatwick-Hove Yard 9+50
5D11 17+00 Hove Yard-Gatwick 17+45
1D11 17.50 Gatwick-Victoria 18.22
1A66 18.45 Victoria-Brighton 19.46

1A39 7.15 Brighton-Victoria 8.20
1D40 8.45 Victoria-Gatwick 9.15
5D40 9+20 Gatwick-Three Bridges 9+26
5D05 16+52 Three Bridges-Gatwick 16+56
1D05 17.05 Gatwick-Victoria 17.35
1A58 18.00 Victoria-Brighton 19.10

1A41 7.30 Brighton-Victoria 8.35
1D42 9.00 Victoria-Gatwick 9.30
1D47 9.50 Gatwick-Victoria 10.20
1D56 10.45 Victoria-Gatwick 11.15
1D61 11.35 Gatwick-Victoria 12.05
1D70 12.30 Victoria-Gatwick 13.00
1D75 13.20 Gatwick-Victoria 13.50
1D84 14.15 Victoria-Gatwick 14.45
1D89 15.05 Gatwick-Victoria 15.35
1D98 16.00 Victoria-Gatwick 16.30
1D03 16.50 Gatwick-Victoria 17.20
1A56 17.45 Victoria-Brighton 18.50

ECS from Stewarts Lane
1D10 5.00 Victoria-Gatwick 5.30
1D15 5.50 Gatwick-Victoria 6.20
1D22 6.30 Victoria-Gatwick 7.00
5A04 7+03 Gatwick-Brighton 7+33
1A43 7.44 Brighton-Victoria 8.52
5T43 9+09 Victoria-Stewarts Lane 9+24
5T00 15+34 Stewarts Lane-Victoria 15+50
1A02 16.15 Victoria-Haywards Heath 16.57
5D09 17+08 Haywards Heath-Gatwick 17+27
1D09 17.35 Gatwick-Victoria 18.05
1A62 18.30 Victoria-Brighton 19.39

 

[SWT Driver]

I'd love to take a 460 down to Reading but get rid of the long nose,not needed.

You wouldn't, they're too quick!

The 460's are rated differently to the 458's, 458001/2 are rated the same as the 460's and are bloody quick!

 

[class 455 boy]

the class 460s without their nose, seriously? look how ugly they would be http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/features/otherjun.html

 

[CCF23]

the class 460s without their nose, seriously? look how ugly they would be http://www.southernelectric.org.uk/features/otherjun.html

I think the front looks like the new Class 70's without the nose and that's got to be bad.

 

[90019]

Whenever I see the pictures of the 460 without the nose on, it reminds me of the Belgian HLE13.

 

[bluesky]

You CAN use a 'normal' ticket on the Gatwick Express if it is routed "Any Permitted" via London. For example, a ticket from Twickenham to Brighton routed "Any Permitted" is fine for the GatEx, change at Gatwick for Brighton.

You can do Victoria - Brighton on the extended Gatwick Expresses on a normal ticket, but you can't do Victoria - Gatwick Airport on Gatwick Express with a normal ticket.