Class 442s

[SWT Driver]

Some of the covers were known as FC's (Finger Choppers!)

 

[Juniper Driver]

Some of the covers were known as FC's (Finger Choppers!)

There is another reason but whether I should say why they were taken off on here from what I heard is perhaps another matter.

Being an SWT driver you may either be able to work out why or find out from other drivers on SWT who used to drive them.

Whether the (real) reason why they were taken off is true or not.I don't know.

 

[Helvellyn]

When introduced the original style covers, which I believe were metal, did fall a few times in the raised position causing injuries to staff. The redesigned versions are, I believe, plastic, and have a rubber flap at the bottom.

Supposedly after the original 24 were built NSE considered ordering another 4 units - there was still enough spare REP traction motors to have allowed this. Shame it never happened. They might still be on SWT too if they had - I'm sure 28 units woud have been enough to cover two trains per hour to Weymouth.

 

[jayc]

I have memories of the 442's Wessex Electrics speeding through Farnborough in 80s/90s.

Back around 1997, SWT ran a fast train which called at Farnborough Main then ran non-stop in to Waterloo. I did catch that train once with the aim of sampling the 442's as part of my newly developed interest in trains, only to be slightly disappointed when a 'Kent Coast Express' type train (sorry, can't remember the class) pulled in, much to the shock of the waiting passengers, one of which even asked in this was the correct train!

Regarding Southern diagrams, The Eastbourne Herald carried an amusing letter on this subject some months back:

"The ????? London - Eastbourne service was formed of Gatwick Express carriages. But it didn't call at Gatwick and was not an express service!"

As for the Southern getting 313's to run on some coastway services - I can just picture the angry letters in the local paper about 377's from 2002/3 being replaced by 1970's trains with no toilets! I myself would think the 313's would be better suited to South London suburban services. Can they work with the 455's?

 

[Pumbaa]

I think it's more the problem of 377s having better acceleration, higher speed limit and higher seating capacity. If it all goes tits up, which it invariably will maybe twice a week, the 377s will be able to recover the timetable fairly easily, whereas the 313s wont be able too, meaning the service remains stuffed for the rest of the day.

 

[Fincra5]

I think it's more the problem of 377s having better acceleration, higher speed limit and higher seating capacity. If it all goes tits up, which it invariably will maybe twice a week, the 377s will be able to recover the timetable fairly easily, whereas the 313s wont be able too, meaning the service remains stuffed for the rest of the day.

Yes but the specific routes that the 313s will run on aren't particualrly prone to delays etc.

Also once refurbished with PSIs and other modern stuff i doubt most of the general customers will be able to tell the trains age.

 

[Pumbaa]

You what? If the 313s go on Metro services in South London, it only takes a camel to sneeze somewhere vaguely near S London for everything to belly up. If a service uses one of Victoria, London Bridge, Clapham or Croydon, it risks being seriously screwed. And lets face it, a majority of services use at least 3 of those.

 

[Fincra5]

Yes but they wont be going anywhere near south london. They will be on the southcoast. Enabling several trains on the southlondon line to be extended to 10cars. (3+3+4).

 

[87015]

Yes but they wont be going anywhere near south london. They will be on the southcoast. Enabling several trains on the southlondon line to be extended to 10cars. (3+3+4).

But again how many 377/3s are going to be released by just the Worthing and Seaford diagrams, about three from each by my guesswork, maybe eight at the very most? So thats all of 3-4 10 car sets in London, hardly worth bothering with!

At best the 313s will be refurbished to 455 "quality" - not a touch on the current 377s. Far more likely to just have a clean and brush up, so will be just as grotty as they are at the moment within a few months, and totally sub-standard compared to the very nice Connex Spec 377s. To convert the latter to Metro standard is another farce in itself, they are the best units in the Southern fleet for long distance travel! (442s excluded maybe but they are pretty naff post-refurb)

 

[class377man]

But again how many 377/3s are going to be released by just the Worthing and Seaford diagrams, about three from each by my guesswork, maybe eight at the very most?

Two from West Worthing, I believe just the one from Seaford and possibly another from the Brighton-Hove shuttle.

Pure speculation, but they could possibly take one or two from the Littlehampton-Bognor shuttle as well, but this would probably require a re-timetabling of some description as I believe the units on those diagrams go Littlehampton-Bognor-Littlehampton-Southsea-Littlehampton-Bognor etc; and of course Littlehampton to Southsea is probably too to be travelling on a 313. Could a 313 even keep up with the timings?

In any case it doesn't free up many /3's, unless Selhurst sends some /1s down to Brighton in exchange for the whole 3 car fleet perhaps...?

 

[MCR247]

I assumed the 313s were going to be used on southampton workings, as thats where the /3s are used?

 

[class377man]

Again, it's (arguably) further than anyone will want to travel on a 313, and I highly doubt a 75mph 313 could keep up with the 100mph 377's current timetable, much less catch up with the timetable if there are delays.

 

[Fincra5]

The 313s are suppossed to only be around until the class 377s on leases to FCC are returned. It will only free up about 5 trains but thats is abount enough to increase 5 trains in south london to 10car.

 

[Pumbaa]

Yes but they wont be going anywhere near south london. They will be on the southcoast. Enabling several trains on the southlondon line to be extended to 10cars. (3+3+4).

I was replying to another that wasn't your post - hence you got the wrong end of my tree!

 

[Fincra5]

I was replying to another that wasn't your post - hence you got the wrong end of my tree!

Oh i see. Sorry

 

[jayc]

My original point about 313's being suited to South London services was based on the interior configuration, as they are setup for inner suburban workings already. Also, how similar are they to the 455's in terms of driver knowledge and maintenance?

Can they be any worse at keeping times or making up for delays then the 455's?

 

[Juniper Driver]

My original point about 313's being suited to South London services was based on the interior configuration, as they are setup for inner suburban workings already. Also, how similar are they to the 455's in terms of driver knowledge and maintenance?

Can they be any worse at keeping times or making up for delays then the 455's?

They are very similar to 315's and 455's.

 

[SWT Driver]

313's may well be mechanically similar, it would still involve a conversion course for train crews.

313's will (in theory) be slightly quicker than a 455 too as it's only 3 coaches in length, so slightly less weight.

The one thing that would concern me slightly, in regards to utilizing them on the Coastway services is the fact that they have tight-lock couplings so are incompatible with the Dellners that are fitted to the rest of the Southern fleet.

It would be prohibitively expensive to convert them to Dellners, so I guess if they are used down there & one breaks down then the delays will be very considerable, especially if they breakdown between Havant & Portsmouth Harbour, as it will affect not only Southern, but SWT & FGW as well.

 

[Aictos]

Any idea what's happening to 2418 and 2423 as they are the two ex SWT 442s that were in unrefurbished condition - what workings are they used on now?

 

[SWT Driver]

Try the spotter site WNXX, they're sure to know.

 

[Aictos]

Anyway, if Southern are interested in the ex LOROL 313s which are dual voltage, surely that's a waste of resources when they could quite easily use the stored 508s that SouthEastern had.

Surely they would have been enough for the Coastway services?

Which would have meant all the 313s returning home to the GN and maybe a service every 15 minutes to both Hertford, Welwyn and Letchworth.

 

[SWT Driver]

And I thought you were putting in for a signallers position.

 

[Aictos]

And I thought you were putting in for a signallers position.

Huh, who was that aimed at?

 

[SWT Driver]

U.

I've been lurking through numerous forums and I've seen your moniker on a couple!

Including one in a signalling forum.

 

[Aictos]

I'm everywhere, ain't I?

As to your question, I've put in for Bristol Temple Meads, Bury St Edmunds and London Bridge although I've only heard about the Bristol position which I didn't get.

Saying that though, I will most certainly be putting in for a guard's job at Kings Cross with InterCity East Coast in December.

I've already applied twice for the guard's positions using NXEC's internal mail to post them to the guard's manager at Kings Cross directly as directed by them, just hope I'm able to clich it third time lucky.

Just watch this space,

 

[Fincra5]

Anyway, if Southern are interested in the ex LOROL 313s which are dual voltage, surely that's a waste of resources when they could quite easily use the stored 508s that SouthEastern had.

Surely they would have been enough for the Coastway services?

Which would have meant all the 313s returning home to the GN and maybe a service every 15 minutes to both Hertford, Welwyn and Letchworth.

Only a handfull of about 5-6 will come down to the south leaving the rest to return to the GN.

 

[Aictos]

Only a handfull of about 5-6 will come down to the south leaving the rest to return to the GN.

That's certainly different to the company view who are only expecting about 8 to come our way!

Which if only a handful go to Southern that still leaves quite a lot in store.

But anyway, couldn't the SouthEastern stored 508s go to Southern instead as they're DC only and there's no OHL that way which should be more then enough for Southern so all the 313s come back home,

 

[Drsatan]

Couldn't' the 313s be used on Watford - Brighton services since they're dual voltage?

 

[MCR247]

But that wouldnt help would it, as they need to release 3 car 377s

 

[SWT Driver]

Couldn't' the 313s be used on Watford - Brighton services since they're dual voltage?

I for one wouldn't want to do a near 2hr journey without a toilet on board!