Class 442 - the missing 7

[PhilipW]

With the recent deployment of 17 units to Southern for use on Gatwick Express and Brighton services, are there any plans for the remaining 7 units.

I have not heard or read any news of these. I presume they are still "resting" somewhere awaiting use somewhere. Has anyone heard of any plans for their re-use ?

With the generally accepted shortage of trains at a national level, this seems like a scandalous waste of a resource.

 

[Turbostar]

If you feel that bad about it, you could always write to the government & complain to them lol...

 

[37402]

Think the remainder are the dregs of the fleet; especially Doreen with her non-standard aircon.

 

[route:oxford]

Think the remainder are the dregs of the fleet; especially Doreen with her non-standard aircon.

If they are the "dregs of the fleet", wouldn't it be better if they were converted to LHCS?

Doesn't take much imagination to see DVT-442-37/47/57/67 running around the network.

Even 43-442-442-43?

 

[devon_metro]

There are plenty of Mk3s/Mk2s that could be used as LHCS anyway

 

[P156KWJ]

If they are the "dregs of the fleet", wouldn't it be better if they were converted to LHCS?

Doesn't take much imagination to see DVT-442-37/47/57/67 running around the network.

Even 43-442-442-43?

would you even need a DVT? Could it just be driven from one of the cabs of the WES regardless of 3rd rail or not?

 

[John_158]

Prehaps it would be an idear for EMT to loan them fro the Crere-Derby when the racing is on at Uttoxitter with a Loco of course.

 

[P156KWJ]

five coaches on that? That'd be overkill! when 2 car 158s are on the route I usually see about 10 people on them

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Have they been put aside for use as sparte parts + relief and recovery services?

 

[PhilipW]

Even if the 7 are in poor mechanical condition I would have thought that the cost of refurbishing them, even if that includes new engines, would still be much less that building equivalent new ones.

From experience, they were always very pleasant to travel in. There is a lot of older stock (1970s Pacers immediately spring to mind) which should be sent to the knacker's yard far sooner than the 442s.

 

[route:oxford]

would you even need a DVT? Could it just be driven from one of the cabs of the WES regardless of 3rd rail or not?

I did wonder about that...

Aren't there restrictions concerning passengers occupying the leading vehicle of a "pushed" service following Polmont though? Obviously Voyagers etc are built to more modern standards.

 

[5872]

At the moment only 5 or 6 linger at Eastleigh. 2409 has been turned into a Christmas Tree at Chart Leacon I think...

 

[laseandre]

I did wonder about that...

Aren't there restrictions concerning passengers occupying the leading vehicle of a "pushed" service following Polmont though? Obviously Voyagers etc are built to more modern standards.

No, there weren't any restrictions on passengers, as Anglia still had DBSOs until a couple of years ago. Object deflectors and headlights were made compulsory following Polmont.

 

[alex57601]

There are plenty of Mk3s/Mk2s that could be used as LHCS anyway

Plenty of Mk.3s, what have you been smoking?

 

[P156KWJ]

Plenty of Mk.3s, what have you been smoking?

I thought that but thought I was being stupid

 

[mbonwick]

^Same as him.^

 

[metrocammel]

There is a lot of older stock (1970s Pacers immediately spring to mind) which should be sent to the knacker's yard far sooner than the 442s.

In actual fact, Pacer's are only 2 or so years older than the 142, which were first introduced at Manchester Victoria in 1985! The prototype 140 'pacer' was around from the early 1980s and I think 141s were introduced fractionally before the 142s. The only DMMUs around in the 1970s were of the '1st gen' variety!

 

[route:oxford]

43-442-442-43

On reflection...

This idea just gets better and better. Especially on the "Highland Chieftan" sets.

A complete rewiring would, of course, be absolutely essential.

Whilst it was being done selective door opening could be specified - thus making things a little safer on the stations with shorter platforms.

Powered doors would also mean that a members of staff wouldn't have to drive around the country to unmanned stations in order to make sure the doors were shut and see off the train*

*This may be wildly inaccurate, but every time I get the Highland Chieftan from a Scottish unmanned station on a Sunday Morning there is a Network Rail member of staff waiting in his Van for the Chieftan. I'm not sure what he does as I'm on the train when it departs.

 

[djw1981]

I don't think he does the doors or disptach. Those stations are FSR managed, and thus a IIRC NX do their own dispatch. Could be a patrolman who can go onto the line once the Chieftain has passed as there may be a sizable gap between it and the next train, during which he scan inspect/patrol/maintain that section of line; lubricate some points etc.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Would 5 carriages be enough on a Chieftain set, given that set would end up going other places, and the HST is (IIRC) 2+9.

 

[jopsuk]

Would 5 carriages be enough on a Chieftain set, given that set would end up going other places, and the HST is (IIRC) 2+9.

His suggestion is to use TWO 442 sets, making for 10 carriages! Even with SDO, this might be a bit long, surely?

Also, what speed would the sets be able to handle? After all, the HC is a fast service south of Edinburgh, with very few stops, taking full advantage of the HST's 125mph cruising speed on the ECML.

 

[37402]

Why are you even bothering talking about converting them for use with powercars? Not only would such a project be prohibitively expensive...

1.There are no spare powercars
2.There are perfectly suitable rakes of stock in existence and in use.

 

[87015]

Is it just 'SR stylee' ETH they can work off aswell, so only cromptons are much good?

 

[jv3531]

442s are limited to 100 mph. They would also need complete re-wiring to work with an HST! No restricticions exisisted for push-pull working, even now. They do already have SDO but its very limited in that you can only lock out one or the other unit, not just certain doors. AFAIK, ETH should work with any suitably equipped loco hence the reson for high-level connectors, as with other slam door types. I know the air will release with any twin pipe braked locos aswell. Only problem is that they will only multi-work in push-pull mode with suitably equipted 33/73s and SR type units.

 

[djw1981]

IIRC though, we are sending the Mk2's abroad (New Zealand and somewhere else ) at the rate of a rake every 2 weeks or so, and there are very few Mk3's available due to the WSMB, GC, Stobart, XC fleets, and the 'reserved' fleet for the possible NXEC ervices to York. These may become available, but given the limited pool of stock - 7x442, about 5x180 and these Mk3's...the chances are that anyone wishing to expand their services will be after the same small pool from now until either GC get their Polaris (originally scheduled 2010-11), or IEP comes out (2012-15) or MMl and GWML get electrified (possibly same timescale as IEP, and same replacement stock.

 

[John_158]

five coaches on that? That'd be overkill! when 2 car 158s are on the route I usually see about 10 people on them

I was under the Impresion that it is very Busy when the RACING is on plus it was fairley busy when i was on it fro about three trips back and forth Between Crewe & Stoke On Trent on Saturday but still only warented a 153.

 

[djw1981]

Why the need for Racing to be shouted?

 

[Juniper Driver]

With the generally accepted shortage of trains at a national level, this seems like a scandalous waste of a resource.

It's not really that easy though is it?

I learnt these units in 1992 and drove these units between 1992-2007 and in all that time two thirds of our link two (34 of 52) were not trained on these units or didn't know the road to Weymouth.

It costs money to train drivers plus you need instructors and at the time many drivers were leaving so SWT had a driver shortage.I spent about 7 solid years going up and down the Weymouth road covering for other drivers who either didn't know the route/traction or both.Drivers couldn't really drive down the Weymouth road if they didn't know the 442s.

There was the same problem on the Reading road with the 458's and the select 22 drivers trained up for the stock.I was the 23rd or something like that but I didn't know 458's (Till I learn't them in Feb 2007)so only went down there on a 455 or 450.

I don't think the problem would be so bad on the GATEX though.