Class 442 - HST sets

[CosherB]

Yet more solutions to problems that don't exist.

Please call for the oxyacetylene ......

 

[najaB]

How much 125 mph running will the Scotrail HSTs need to do? Other than the WCML/ECML south of Glasgow/Edinburgh respectively, is there any track with a 125 line speed in Scotland?

I don't know of any - there's some 100mph between Glasgow and Edinburgh, Glasgow and Dundee and Edinburgh and Dundee. Don't know of anything over that.

 

[sarahj]

I think Southern should keep them and use them on the Brighton Express's and have none of this silly thought of extending Gatwick Expresses to Brighton twice an hour. The issues they have now on the trains south of Gatwick is the stopping pattern. If you stop at Hassocks and then Burgess Hill, they take too long to get up to speed. Bishopstone and his 442 has stops at Trumpton and Cooksbridge, Glynde and Berwick. The same. Mind, when they go he will miss his nice first class seats. A nice bit of hardboard with a white bit on is waiting for him.

 

[JamesRowden]

You seem to have misread the sentence:
"The 377s displaced by the 442s could displace the 313s"

by removing the start:
"The 377s displaced by the"

442s could not displace the 313s. They are entirely unsuitable for the route. They are even less suitable than the 313s despite having toilets.

Now we have two people who have trouble reading Perhaps we should write a paper on this

I was stating that displacing 377s on one route would allow those 377s to displaice 313s on other routes. SIMPLES

 

[SWTCommuter]

ATW charge premium fares compared to LM around here at least. Hereford to Shrewsbury is more expensive, for less distance, than Hereford to Birmingham New Street. Hereford to Cardiff's only about a mile further than it is to Birmingham, but still the fares with ATW are more expensive.

Just to put that in perspective, the SDR fare for the 51-mile journey between Hereford and Shrewsbury is £22.20 and is the same in either direction.
On the route that the class 442s were built to serve, the SDR fare for the 50.75-mile journey between Woking and Southampton Parkway is slightly higher at £25.10. However, if you wish to travel in the direction of the morning peak flow, the SDR fare from Southampton Parkway to Woking is £46.60.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

There's only one place where the 442s are likely to go - the scrap yard

 

[The Ham]

The 442's (may they live forever) are so saintly that no government will ever scrap them and will authorise many rebuilds until they ultimately form the basis of the interstellar ship which saves all humanity by taking them to earth 2.0.

 

[talldave]

I think Southern should keep them and use them on the Brighton Express's and have none of this silly thought of extending Gatwick Expresses to Brighton twice an hour. The issues they have now on the trains south of Gatwick is the stopping pattern. If you stop at Hassocks and then Burgess Hill, they take too long to get up to speed. Bishopstone and his 442 has stops at Trumpton and Cooksbridge, Glynde and Berwick. The same. Mind, when they go he will miss his nice first class seats. A nice bit of hardboard with a white bit on is waiting for him.

My thoughts entirely, too. Sadly, due to work overload reasons I missed the opportunity to respond to Southern's consultation earlier in the year to tell them this. An airport shuttle should be just that - regular as clockwork, on a dedicated point to point service. Not some overpriced ticket for the privilege of waiting on a cold platform for a delayed train, only to travel in a clapped out heap of a train from way back in the last century, where most of the heat comes from the flames when it catches fire.

 

[nlogax]

The 442's (may they live forever) are so saintly that no government will ever scrap them and will authorise many rebuilds until they ultimately form the basis of the interstellar ship which saves all humanity by taking them to earth 2.0.

I WISH this forum had a 'like' button..

 

[Clip]

The 442's (may they live forever) are so saintly that no government will ever scrap them and will authorise many rebuilds until they ultimately form the basis of the interstellar ship which saves all humanity by taking them to earth 2.0.

This is the forward thinking the railway needs.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

The 442's (may they live forever) are so saintly that no government will ever scrap them and will authorise many rebuilds until they ultimately form the basis of the interstellar ship which saves all humanity by taking them to earth 2.0.

This is the forward thinking the railway needs.

Trouble is the work to convert them to either AC only or dual would mean a major rewire and a new motor coach as I doubt a pan well could be fitted to the motor car without compromising the crash structure. By the time that is paid for it'll probably be getting well towards the cost of a brand new unit

 

[D6975]

The 442's (may they live forever) are so saintly that no government will ever scrap them and will authorise many rebuilds until they ultimately form the basis of the interstellar ship which saves all humanity by taking them to earth 2.0.

Nah, they haven't got enough room for a warp core - they're huge you know...

 

[SprinterMan]

Nah, they haven't got enough room for a warp core - they're huge you know...

Should be relatively easy to convert the MLC to hold the warp core, it was kinda built for it as it has the underpinnings of a Mark 3 Generator Van. Shouldn't use up much more space than a DDA loo :P

Adam

 

[FlippyFF]

But if you fitted the warp core inside a TARDIS and then had that land inside one of the carriages......

 

[SprinterMan]

But if you fitted the warp core inside a TARDIS and then had that land inside one of the carriages......

DON'T SAY THAT IN PUBLIC, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT THE ROMULANS WANT!


"cough"Romulans"cough" Admin: SprinterMan is banned from RailUKforums....

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Nah, they haven't got enough room for a warp core - they're huge you know...

The warp core from a Runabout should fit ok

 

[Flying Snail]

You can all be as snide as you like about some of the ideas put forward here but IMO as long as there are plans to keep pacers and convert ex-LU stock into DMUs then the idea of re-using non life expired 442 stock is anything but ridiculous.

The pacers are an embarrassment and the D stock conversion an extreme solution to the shortage of diesel stock.

Removal of the traction equipment and conversion to P/P hauled stock for use on some of the longer more limited stop routes currently being run with D/EMUs would allow a significant cascade of more commuter style stock to enable the withdrawal of pacers and strengthening of other services.

Services such as Liverpool-Newcastle with 67s, Manchester-Glasgow/Edinburgh with 90s or extra hauled sets for Chiltern would be suitable for such stock, arguably more so than the suburban style stock currently used on these routes.

The short-medium term shortage of diesel stock is an issue. The reluctance to purchase new diesel units which may be surplus following electrification is understandable but it leaves a big gap when there will be a shortage of stock and a significant fleet of poor quality (150-153) and sub standard (142-144 & D stock?) on the network.

The ideas to re-traction the 442s are not realistic, especially any thoughts of OHLE conversions. In hindsight SWT should not have been allowed ditch them when they were going to be short of IC spec units for Bournemouth and Portsmouth lines, rather a mid-life retractioning program should have taken place as with the 455s, preferably to make them comparable to the 444s to keep them on the routes they were originally built for but that ship has sailed now.

 

[Yew]

You can all be as snide as you like about some of the ideas put forward here but IMO as long as there are plans to keep pacers and convert ex-LU stock into DMUs then the idea of re-using non life expired 442 stock is anything but ridiculous.

The pacers are an embarrassment and the D stock conversion an extreme solution to the shortage of diesel stock.

Removal of the traction equipment and conversion to P/P hauled stock for use on some of the longer more limited stop routes currently being run with D/EMUs would allow a significant cascade of more commuter style stock to enable the withdrawal of pacers and strengthening of other services.

Services such as Liverpool-Newcastle with 67s, Manchester-Glasgow/Edinburgh with 90s or extra hauled sets for Chiltern would be suitable for such stock, arguably more so than the suburban style stock currently used on these routes.

The short-medium term shortage of diesel stock is an issue. The reluctance to purchase new diesel units which may be surplus following electrification is understandable but it leaves a big gap when there will be a shortage of stock and a significant fleet of poor quality (150-153) and sub standard (142-144 & D stock?) on the network.

The ideas to re-traction the 442s are not realistic, especially any thoughts of OHLE conversions. In hindsight SWT should not have been allowed ditch them when they were going to be short of IC spec units for Bournemouth and Portsmouth lines, rather a mid-life retractioning program should have taken place as with the 455s, preferably to make them comparable to the 444s to keep them on the routes they were originally built for but that ship has sailed now.

I would still argue, that on the ridiculousness scale, converting 50 year old metro stock to diesel is much more ridiculous than 442 usage...

 

[Mikey C]

But if you fitted the warp core inside a TARDIS and then had that land inside one of the carriages......

"Southern Trains regrets to announce the cancellation of the 18:02 to Eastbourne due to the train dematerialising from the platform. The driver, John Smith said something about Skaro"

 

[dgl]

"Southern Trains regrets to announce the cancellation of the 18:02 to Eastbourne due to the train dematerialising from the platform. The driver, John Smith said something about Skaro"

surely no cancellation needed? The train travels through space and time so could return from it's universe saving duties the same time it left.

If only you could run them on some of the older tube lines, daleks (well old ones at least) can't use stairs! Instant protection from daleks!

 

[GatwickDepress]

The TARDIS might be bigger on the inside, but its doors make it really unsuitable for airport services...

 

[tsr]

"Going back in time 30 minutes, every 15 minutes. Book online at gatwickexpress.com"

 

[RobShipway]

You may mock, but as the present government has said that they do not want pacers and also do not want rebuilds of trains to be diesel units than all of those doing Star Trek jokes I have no doubt will be embarrassed when the class 442's go on for another 20 years, either as complete units or with being loco hauled in some form.

The class 442 carriages are no different to the Mk3 carriages that Wrexham and Shropshire had converted and are now being hauled by class 68 locos for Chiltern.

 

[DT611]

the present government has said that they do not want pacers

i don't think they have said that. they have stated in the northern rail ITT that all vehicles must be bogied vehicles but that
a. could change
b. doesn't stop other operators from taking on pacers.
the 143 and 144s could continue on working lines which 153s operate. the 142s will probably go.

also do not want rebuilds of trains to be diesel units

again, that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[CosherB]

The class 442 carriages are no different to the Mk3 carriages that Wrexham and Shropshire had converted and are now being hauled by class 68 locos for Chiltern.

I think you'll find that they are different .....

 

[t_star2001uk]

The class 442 carriages are no different to the Mk3 carriages that Wrexham and Shropshire had converted and are now being hauled by class 68 locos for Chiltern.

Bar couplings between coaches, smaller plug doors, no buffers on the inner ends, different bogies, triple valves instead of distributors, smaller plug doors, 27 way multiple working jumpers not AAR

thats just a few differences, they were built as a multiple unit and not as loco hauled stock. The conversion to loco hauled stock would probably be prohibitively expensive. However the conversion to razor blades or cat food cans would be very cheap indeed.

 

[SprinterMan]

You may mock, but as the present government has said that they do not want pacers and also do not want rebuilds of trains to be diesel units than all of those doing Star Trek jokes I have no doubt will be embarrassed when the class 442's go on for another 20 years, either as complete units or with being loco hauled in some form.

The class 442 carriages are no different to the Mk3 carriages that Wrexham and Shropshire had converted and are now being hauled by class 68 locos for Chiltern.

I am sure they will go on for more than 20 years If I remember correctly, 3 or 4 of them were involved in the Battle of Cardassia at the end of the Dominion war :P

 

[SpacePhoenix]

I am sure they will go on for more than 20 years If I remember correctly, 3 or 4 of them were involved in the Battle of Cardassia at the end of the Dominion war :P

Nah, it was Wolf 359

 

[WatcherZero]

If FGW found (and government agreed) it was cheaper to order brand new trains than modernise its HST sets to 2020 compliance what would the comparable 442 conversion and modernisation cost be?

 

[SprinterMan]

Nah, it was Wolf 359

My mistake, must be thinking of D78 stock at Cardassia :P