Class 43 (HST) trains post 2020.

[CockneySparrow]

Should EC get rid of theirs it might cause a problem for diversions

With no HSTs on stock it will be interesting on how they divert through Ely and through to Lincoln, talking of Lincoln doesn't EC have a couple of diagrams that start at Lincoln

 

[D6975]

Should EC get rid of theirs it might cause a problem for diversions

With no HSTs on stock it will be interesting on how they divert through Ely and through to Lincoln, talking of Lincoln doesn't EC have a couple of diagrams that start at Lincoln

No more than it does now.
A mix of 91s and HSTs replaced with a mix of 800s and 801s.

 

[NotATrainspott]

No more than it does now.
A mix of 91s and HSTs replaced with a mix of 800s and 801s.

In fact, it would be slightly more possible than it is today because the nominally electric-only 801s are capable of low-speed, short-ish distance away from the wires using their single diesel powerpack. If there is only a short section of OHLE loss, it would be possible to continue until power is restored without needing to wait around for hours before a rescue locomotive could pull or push them through.

 

[CockneySparrow]

No more than it does now.
A mix of 91s and HSTs replaced with a mix of 800s and 801s.

ok thanks, must say that in recent times that I have seen they have opted to run HSTs through Ely rather than 91s on drag
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

In fact, it would be slightly more possible than it is today because the nominally electric-only 801s are capable of low-speed, short-ish distance away from the wires using their single diesel powerpack. If there is only a short section of OHLE loss, it would be possible to continue until power is restored without needing to wait around for hours before a rescue locomotive could pull or push them through.

Not sure what that would be though, but the only stretch would be between Ely and Peterborough which takes approx 45 minutes by a 2/3 car DMU, not sure of the miles though between the two cities

 

[sprinterguy]

Not sure what that would be though, but the only stretch would be between Ely and Peterborough which takes approx 45 minutes by a 2/3 car DMU, not sure of the miles though between the two cities

The idea with the emergency power unit under the "pure electric" IEP trains is more to allow them to set back or run forward to the nearest station or the next section of live OHLE on a route where the wires have come down, rather than rambling off down un-electrified diversionary routes.

 

[CockneySparrow]

The idea with the emergency power unit under the "pure electric" IEP trains is more to allow them to set back or run forward to the nearest station or the next section of live OHLE on a route where the wires have come down, rather than rambling off down un-electrified diversionary routes.

So all in all the section between Ely and Peterborough will be too far then

 

[cjmillsnun]

Please read #96 about AC 25kv 442 type and come back. Rebuilding from body shell upwards is like a new train but less than half the cost. Traction equipment from the proposed 387s could be installed with gearing for 110mph or for 125mph.

A hybrid electric/diesel HST would need more spares but with a longer life more spares would be manufactured. Diesel would be used only off-wires or when diverted and quite capable of swift acceleration on short formations of 5 or 6 coaches using one power car.

So why was networker classic not cost effective then???

Also rebuilding from bodyshell upwards on a MK3 would just be retaining the Bogies. The coach is a monocoque.

 

[RobShipway]

So all in all the section between Ely and Peterborough will be too far then

My impression was that the diesel engine in the 800s, would be only used in distances such as maybe sidings to engine shed or as mentioned above to get the train to the nearest station as long as it is not more than about 5 - 10 miles away.

So why was networker classic not cost effective then???

Also rebuilding from bodyshell upwards on a MK3 would just be retaining the Bogies. The coach is a monocoque.

I think you would find that the bogies would need to be replaced as well as the bodyshell, such that at that cost you probably would be better off buying a new train.

Even if the IC125's where re - used after withdrawal from the GWML or ICEC routes, they are long distance inter city trains. I think the shortest route that you would have them doing is doing the Edingburgh - Glasgow services if you are lucky. If anything, I would suspect that the coaches would be re - used in some way possibly with class 68 &/or Class 88 power with the Class 43 loco's withdrawn. The Mk3 HSTS coaches would have to be converted to be used with sliding doors as per the mk3 coaches with Chiltern.

 

[jopsuk]

Edingburgh - Glasgow services if you are lucky. If anything, .

eh? All four routes are going to be electric before too long, with the mainline getting an all new fleet of commuter EMUs

 

[Techniquest]

Seems a lot of people are almost sitting there with cutters torches ready and waiting! I hope I can win seriously big on the EuroMillions before the HSTs are retired, as I know one of the first 10 things I'd do would be buying my own train. A 2+8 HST would be quite fine, as I could then use it for my own charter operations!

Pipe dreams the lot of it I know...

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Probably not financially viable but what about conversion into a dual-voltage version of a 442, with plug doors?

 

[TheGrew]

Probably not financially viable but what about conversion into a dual-voltage version of a 442, with plug doors?

Don't SWT have them already? They are called 444s

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk

 

[jopsuk]

Seems a lot of people are almost sitting there with cutters torches ready and waiting! I hope I can win seriously big on the EuroMillions before the HSTs are retired, as I know one of the first 10 things I'd do would be buying my own train. A 2+8 HST would be quite fine, as I could then use it for my own charter operations!

Pipe dreams the lot of it I know...

There will be some saved for preservation, hopefully mainline certified. That's pretty much a given

Probably not financially viable but what about conversion into a dual-voltage version of a 442, with plug doors?

The motor cars of 442s are on a different chassis, developed for the Irish mark 3 generators (but in design, heavily modified). conversion of a carriage would be into the "you're better off building a new carriage" realm.

 

[starrymarkb]

I think you would find that the bogies would need to be replaced as well as the bodyshell, such that at that cost you probably would be better off buying a new train.

Would there be anything original left if you've replaced the body and the bogies?

 

[TorqueOfTheDevil]

Would there be anything original left if you've replaced the body and the bogies?

The smell...

 

[sonorguy]

Would there be anything original left if you've replaced the body and the bogies?

Trigger's broom.......

 

[deltic08]

So why was networker classic not cost effective then???

Also rebuilding from bodyshell upwards on a MK3 would just be retaining the Bogies. The coach is a monocoque.

I don't know. Does anyone? Could have been clapped out 1950s traction equipment.

I don't know what you mean. All Mk2 and Mk3s are monocoque. Hundreds have been stripped completely to bodyshells and rebuilt. Some were even re skinned.

 

[al.currie93]

With regards to the Mk 3s, as a lot of people know Porterbrook have an extensive document describing and promoting the Mk 3s and plans for their future development. This could at least imply that there are plans for the Mk 3s at least to stay in service. Just an observation

 

[Yew]

The smell...

Thats a voyager

 

[thenorthern]

Just thought what and when was the last passenger rolling stock withdrawn in this country?

 

[cjmillsnun]

Class 421/7 Withdrawn 22 May 2010. (On National Rail)

Although most had gone in 2004/5

 

[Peter Mugridge]

So why was networker classic not cost effective then???

I was under the impression that the project was killed off not by costs but the fact that the design retained a separate underframe - this did not meet group standards.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I was under the impression that the project was killed off not by costs but the fact that the design retained a separate underframe - this did not meet group standards.

I thought that particular nail came a year later when a 142 body was separated from it's chassis at Winsford, though there was definitely a concern about it at the time.

 

[Manchester77]

Just thought what and when was the last passenger rolling stock withdrawn in this country?

Depends on if you want to count light rail and metro because if so you could say london Undergrounds C stock or metrolinks T68As which are finally withdrawn from full service today!

If you just count national rail then excluding stuff written off during crashes the last stock to be withdrawn would have been the 317/7s but the last stock to be withdrawn and scrapped would have been the slammers from the southern region.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I thought that particular nail came a year later when a 142 body was separated from it's chassis at Winsford, though there was definitely a concern about it at the time.

That's complicated by the point that the 142 bodyshells were held on by bolts that were actually designed to shear off in the event of an impact like that.

If you look at a side on picture of that crash and then consider what would have happened had the bodyshell stayed firmly attached to the underframes, it is clear why it was designed like that.

Should there be a similar accident now that these bolts have been re-inforced to prevent shearing, the consequences would ironically probably be rather worse.

 

[RichmondCommu]

With regards to the Mk 3s, as a lot of people know Porterbrook have an extensive document describing and promoting the Mk 3s and plans for their future development. This could at least imply that there are plans for the Mk 3s at least to stay in service. Just an observation

In all fairness Porterbrook will look to sweat as much out of their assets as they can so it’s hardly surprising that they are looking to promote the mk3 coaches. Whether there would be any expressions of interest is an entirely different matter.

 

[deltic08]

I was under the impression that the project was killed off not by costs but the fact that the design retained a separate underframe - this did not meet group standards.

I thought that may have been the reason but wasn't sure. Pacers must be the same then?

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Could the power cars be rebuilt (or replaced) to become AC power cars (maybe with a retractible 3rd rail shoe for 3rd rail areas or would it again be in the realm of not financially viable?

 

[starrymarkb]

Where would you use them? Most new electric passenger stock both here and in Europe is going to MU operation.

I think the only new Loco+Stock high speed trains in recent years are the Austrian Railjets (and that was because OBB had far more Taurii then they needed following a downturn in freight)

 

[jopsuk]

Could the power cars be rebuilt (or replaced) to become AC power cars (maybe with a retractible 3rd rail shoe for 3rd rail areas or would it again be in the realm of not financially viable?

not financially viable. Where would they go? ECML and GWML are getting fleets of class 800 & 801 (crystal ball time: the order will expand to include enough to run Penzance services), WCML has no need of them. Of the other main lines:
the ECML Mark 4s may go to the GEML or MML. "electric HSTs" would certainly be of little use on the GEML where services are already run by 90s+mark3+DVT.
the third rail mainlines mainly use modern EMUs. on the longest, the SWML, they use modern 23m end door EMUs.