Class 43 disposals

[Towers]

They have been intensively worked, though, and many of the engines are approaching their third QL4 full life overhaul, at which point they apparently turn into pumpkins and MTU may not give you the same warranty on the overhaul.

Had these three been 'warm stored', or just left at the mercy of the elements?

 

[nat67]

Had these three been 'warm stored', or just left at the mercy of the elements?

The latter. Porterbrook don’t need to pay for 46 year old locos with no future sat in sheds. They are scrap unless some enthusiasts have them.

 

[43096]

Had these three been 'warm stored', or just left at the mercy of the elements?

The latter. Porterbrook don’t need to pay for 46 year old locos with no future sat in sheds. They are scrap unless some enthusiasts have them.

And your source for that is?

If they've been stored like the others they'll have been drained of fluids with engine de-commissioning work undertaken. So not warm stored, but not just left to rot, either.

 

[Benno]

And your source for that is?

If they've been stored like the others they'll have been drained of fluids with engine de-commissioning work undertaken. So not warm stored, but not just left to rot, either.

Yes, they have been drained of fluids and the MTU engine control modules etc removed, but other than regularly being moved around the yard to prevent bearing brinnelling they have been left out in the open at Long Marston. Cold weather and not running them up regularly has not been kind to them.

This is in contrast to the 153s that are stored there. They have all fluids and are regularly started up and moved, but this is because they are still seen as an asset with a potential future.

 

[TheEdge]

And your source for that is?

If they've been stored like the others they'll have been drained of fluids with engine de-commissioning work undertaken. So not warm stored, but not just left to rot, either.

The ones sat at Ely don't look like they are anything other than left to rot. The exhausts are not even covered so those will be full of pigeons and water to start with and plenty have either cab or corridor doors open.

 

[fgwrich]

Yes, they have been drained of fluids and the MTU engine control modules etc removed, but other than regularly being moved around the yard to prevent bearing brinnelling they have been left out in the open at Long Marston. Cold weather and not running them up regularly has not been kind to them.

This is in contrast to the 153s that are stored there. They have all fluids and are regularly started up and moved, but this is because they are still seen as an asset with a potential future.

At least Porterbrook's fleet was weather-proofed though, e.g exhaust ports covered over etc. Whereas the poor fleet at Ely from another leasing co, in reality, has no future whatsoever.

 

[Benno]

At least Porterbrook's fleet was weather-proofed though, e.g exhaust ports covered over etc. Whereas the poor fleet at Ely from another leasing co, in reality, has no future whatsoever.

I would imagine the Ely fleet will be used as spares for the Scotrail and GWR fleets as and when required. And so I would hope they are looking after them.

 

[TrainTrackJack]

Question of mine is, when they reach Newport, what do they do with the cabs as they are fibreglass? Does it go for specialist recycling, or is it just put in the shredder with everything else? Also, the chassis I’m presuming has to be gas axed and not have grabber-on-a-digger treatment as it’s fairly tough.

 

[DustyBin]

Question of mine is, when they reach Newport, what do they do with the cabs as they are fibreglass? Does it go for specialist recycling, or is it just put in the shredder with everything else? Also, the chassis I’m presuming has to be gas axed and not have grabber-on-a-digger treatment as it’s fairly tough.

Im not sure re the cabs to be honest, they may put obvious non-metal parts to one side but I couldn’t say. In regard to heavy components, oxy-propane will be the last resort; most stuff can be chopped up using a shear attachment on an excavator.

 

[TrainTrackJack]

Im not sure re the cabs to be honest, they may put obvious non-metal parts to one side but I couldn’t say. In regard to heavy components, oxy-propane will be the last resort; most stuff can be chopped up using a shear attachment on an excavator.

IIRC they had to torch the bogies of the MK3s to disassemble them, whether they do this to unit bogies and locos is another thing.

 

[fgwrich]

Question of mine is, when they reach Newport, what do they do with the cabs as they are fibreglass? Does it go for specialist recycling, or is it just put in the shredder with everything else? Also, the chassis I’m presuming has to be gas axed and not have grabber-on-a-digger treatment as it’s fairly tough.

I can rather imagine the cabs will be removed carefully and used as spares. There isn't that many spare cabs in store, so PB and Angel will likely be trying to save as many key components like that as they can.

 

[tricky18jan]

Isn’t Sims a total destruction place ?
Nothing gets salvaged in any way from Sims

 

[TrainTrackJack]

Isn’t Sims a total destruction place ?
Nothing gets salvaged in any way from Sims

Eversholt managed to get the flame cuts from 315820 after the preservation attempt fell through to give to the 315 preservation society.

 

[hooverboy]

The latter. Porterbrook don’t need to pay for 46 year old locos with no future sat in sheds. They are scrap unless some enthusiasts have them.

I am still of the belief that the network is sitll in absolutely dire need of a short wheelbase,low axle load/ RA,go anywhere "mixed traffic" type engine.

Now that DRS are canning a lot of 37's,as they have done with the CL20's, there is still perhaps a niche to fill.I doubt many freight operators are willing to stump up £4m a time for new loco's.
Back to back,or TaT de-rated + re geared HST's with conventional drawgear could perform those tasks previously assigned to the 20's/37's,with much more modern engines and much better fuel efficiency

 

[D365]

Isn’t Sims a total destruction place ?
Nothing gets salvaged in any way from Sims

It depends on the agreed contracts between Sims and the respective ROSCOs.

 

[HamworthyGoods]

I can rather imagine the cabs will be removed carefully and used as spares. There isn't that many spare cabs in store, so PB and Angel will likely be trying to save as many key components like that as they can.

Generally, cabs on power cars tend to get repaired and go back in the power car they were on before, hence why power cars can be stopped for quite some time.

Whilst in theory the cabs are interchangeable, they have become so warped over the years it’s very difficult to fit a different one to a power car and hope it actually lines up.

 

[Towers]

Generally, cabs on power cars tend to get repaired and go back in the power car they were on before, hence why power cars can be stopped for quite some time.

Whilst in theory the cabs are interchangeable, they have become so warped over the years it’s very difficult to fit a different one to a power car and hope it actually lines up.

A similar story to the doors on the MK3s then! Replacing one that had been ripped off wasn't a quick job apparently!

 

[Green tractor]

I had reason to visit Newport docks on Thursday morning. All 3 power cars looked complete, apart from the front one having some front end damage, I'm guessing it had been shunted using a grab. By contrast the 365s that arrived later had been dragged from the rails and were sat next to each other on the concrete at 45 degrees minus bogies. The only reason I can think they still survived was component recovery, the engines are probably still worth a few thousand.

 

[150249]

To change the subject, are all Scotrail HSTs still in service?

 

[Towers]

I had reason to visit Newport docks on Thursday morning. All 3 power cars looked complete, apart from the front one having some front end damage, I'm guessing it had been shunted using a grab. By contrast the 365s that arrived later had been dragged from the rails and were sat next to each other on the concrete at 45 degrees minus bogies. The only reason I can think they still survived was component recovery, the engines are probably still worth a few thousand.

They aren't saving the cabs then!

== Doublepost prevention - post automatically merged: 16 Jan 2022 ==

To change the subject, are all Scotrail HSTs still in service?

The set involved in the Stonehaven accident certainly isn't Another set did suffer a derailment of the rear power car somewhere, but nowhere near as serious and so hopefully it was returned to service.

 

[Cowley]

To change the subject, are all Scotrail HSTs still in service?

Probably better off asking in this thread really:

ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

A close friend of mine came across a set of documents lying on the table in a staff bothy regarding in-depth details of the refurbishment plan for the ScotRail HST fleet. I can't find any released PDFs online nor on this forum, so I've started this thread dedicated to the ScotRail HST arrival...

www.railforums.co.uk

 

[150249]

Probably better off asking in this thread really:

ScotRail HST Introduction - Updates & Discussion

A close friend of mine came across a set of documents lying on the table in a staff bothy regarding in-depth details of the refurbishment plan for the ScotRail HST fleet. I can't find any released PDFs online nor on this forum, so I've started this thread dedicated to the ScotRail HST arrival...

www.railforums.co.uk

Thank you. I forgot this thread existed.

 

[Cowley]

Thank you. I forgot this thread existed.

No worries.

 

[Razorblades]

A similar story to the doors on the MK3s then! Replacing one that had been ripped off wasn't a quick job apparently!

Not really for this thread (sorry), but when part of the Mk2E/F 'C27E' contract was undertaken at Polmadie, including the CDL modifications, each door had to be returned to its previous corner, as every one was a bespoke fit, and quite possibly had been since they were built at Derby 25+ years earlier!

 

[coppercapped]

I am still of the belief that the network is sitll in absolutely dire need of a short wheelbase,low axle load/ RA,go anywhere "mixed traffic" type engine.

Now that DRS are canning a lot of 37's,as they have done with the CL20's, there is still perhaps a niche to fill.I doubt many freight operators are willing to stump up £4m a time for new loco's.
Back to back,or TaT de-rated + re geared HST's with conventional drawgear could perform those tasks previously assigned to the 20's/37's,with much more modern engines and much better fuel efficiency

For what traffic would any modified HST power cars be suitable?

In other news, modern traction electronics are remarkably effective. On test a Class 88 started and hauled a 2,500 tonne test train on wet rails — admittedly on the flat — with three out of the four traction motors isolated.

50 year old DC drive designs just don't cut it any more.

Oh, and ROG are buying the Class 93 locomotives and will own them. No leasing company is involved so at least one freight operating company is prepared to splash the cash.

Added in edit: ROG claim that because of the lower maintenance and operating costs and higher productivity a Class 93 will still undercut more traditional freight locomotives in spite of the higher capital charges. It's their money so I suspect they've done the calculations correctly.

 

[Roger B]

Added in edit: ROG claim that because of the lower maintenance and operating costs and higher productivity a Class 93 will still undercut more traditional freight locomotives in spite of the higher capital charges. It's their money so I suspect they've done the calculations correctly.

I'm in no doubt that the calculations themselves are correct. The questions arise about the validity / accuracy of the assumptions that are incorporated within the calculations, eg re increased availability, lower operating costs, etc.

 

[Wyrleybart]

I am still of the belief that the network is sitll in absolutely dire need of a short wheelbase,low axle load/ RA,go anywhere "mixed traffic" type engine.

Now that DRS are canning a lot of 37's,as they have done with the CL20's, there is still perhaps a niche to fill.I doubt many freight operators are willing to stump up £4m a time for new loco's.
Back to back,or TaT de-rated + re geared HST's with conventional drawgear could perform those tasks previously assigned to the 20's/37's,with much more modern engines and much better fuel efficiency

With respect though a pair of back to back HST powercars are still high speed passenger units without the ability to behave like locomotives. HSTs don't have weak fields (gears) like conventional locomotives have, and are optimised for running passenger trains at express speeds. Whilst Colas are using power cars on test trains which are generally four or five vehicles, it is best not to regard power cars as locomotives.

 

[D6130]

Every time I see this thread heading, I can't help visualising lines of condemned 'Warship' diesel-hydraulics awaiting the cutter's torch at Swindon back in the early 'seventies!

 

[hooverboy]

For what traffic would any modified HST power cars be suitable?

The routes and haulage in question would be some of the really tight curvature routes or those with earthworks/civils that cannot allow high axle load vehicles such as the class 88's.
There are still a lot of routes that will not permit RA7 locomotives like cl88 ,and even some RA6 such as cl47, hence why the 20's and 37's have been in service for so long.

 

[TrainTrackJack]

I had reason to visit Newport docks on Thursday morning. All 3 power cars looked complete, apart from the front one having some front end damage, I'm guessing it had been shunted using a grab. By contrast the 365s that arrived later had been dragged from the rails and were sat next to each other on the concrete at 45 degrees minus bogies. The only reason I can think they still survived was component recovery, the engines are probably still worth a few thousand.

Pity a photo wasn't taken, but at the same time, I don't think I would want to see!