Class 395 / Javelins

[williamn]

I just read that these will only have a top speed of 140mph. Why not 186mph? And wont having trains travelling at different speeds on HS1 clog the line up?

 

[Phoenix]

Depends on the frequency of the Eurostar services and arn't any part's of HS1 four tracked such as stations.
If so then I guess it wont matter as long as there is some good timetabling in place.
But if im wrong then by all account it will end up like the rest of Britains railways but on an international level.

 

[Crompton Karl]

I believe the reasoning behind the Top speed being 140mph is to allow better accelleration between the station stops on HS1. Especially as the Javelins will stop at every station on the HS1, Stratford, Ebbsfleet then once they leave HS1 at either Ebbsfleet or Ashford they join the convntional network. Very little running will take place at 140mph in all. The London - Dagenham part is line speed at 140mph anyways, once they leave the London tunnels they would shortly be slowing down for Ebbslfeet and its only 20 miles between Ebbsfleet and Ashford, so it would not significantly hinder any Eurostar.

Karl

 

[P156KWJ]

and you've got to remember, eurostars are not dead frequent, so yeah

 

[CraigS]

and you've got to remember, eurostars are not dead frequent, so yeah

Indeed, not sure how many trains per hour use High Speed 1, I've always seen between two and four trains use it whenever I've been nearby.

 

[me123]

As long as the Eurostar can pass the Javelin at a station, then I'm sure there shouldn't be a problem. And, as said, the accelleration could almost cancel out the lower speed given the distances involved.

 

[CraigS]

As long as the Eurostar can pass the Javelin at a station

Theres also a couple of loops in the middle of knowwhere if needed, but they are intended for any freight that could start using the line.

 

[Phoenix]

Theres also a couple of loops in the middle of knowwhere if needed, but they are intended for any freight that could start using the line.

well let's hope they come up with a loco that can pull freight fast enough or can a 92 pick up some decent speed.

 

[CraigS]

well let's hope they come up with a loco that can pull freight fast enough or can a 92 pick up some decent speed.

I don't think 92s would be much of a problem speed wise, the loops would probably need to be used by them, I think the problem is that the 92s would need to be modified in someway, I think they may not be compatible with the signalling system on High Speed 1 AFAIK, or something like that anyway, someone may be able to expand on that.

 

[Crompton Karl]

I always thought the Class 92's already have TVM 430 fitted as its the same signalling system in use through the Channel Tunnel?

 

[CraigS]

I always thought the Class 92's already have TVM 430 fitted as its the same signalling system in use through the Channel Tunnel?

They probably can be used on the HS1 then, pretty sure I read somewhere that they couldn't though.

 

[5872]

I reckon they are fitted with the TVM In-cab Signalling system, as the channel tunnel only has 'raperes' or however you spell those dodgey signal things. There is Lenham loops and two others, both can hold a single eurostar or more, and are used in emergencys at this mouement.

I don't know why SNCF don't allow TGVs over here, there not the same length, even in double form there 2 coaches short of a single eurostar.


http://gallerysteven.fotopic.net/p51822158.html - Karl was right, they do have TVM. (Tis the two large rectangles with smaller squares inside them).

I think the TGV and Eurostar trains TVM system is only cleared to 430kph.

 

[CraigS]

There is Lenham loops and two others, both can hold a single eurostar or more, and are used in emergencys at this mouement.

The other loops are at Singlewell (near Gravesend) and at Charing, just down the road from Lenham loops. They all see use by maintenence trains such as this and even the ocassional ballast train formed of Network Rail Autoballasters and top and tailed EWS locos like this.

 

[5872]

The other loops are at Singlewell (near Gravesend) and at Charing, just down the road from Lenham loops. They all see use by maintenence trains such as this and even the ocassional ballast train formed of Network Rail Autoballasters and top and tailed EWS locos like this.

Imagine a 186.4MPH 66 .

 

[Phoenix]

Imagine a 186.4MPH 66 .

No I would rather not :-? But I don't see why we can't have the TGV unit's through the tunnel we have had the SNCF Bo-Bo loco's and I have seen articles or various foreign diesel's making the trip.
Maybe if anything we just need to Iron out the creases in the system and clean up before we invite the french over.

Personally I hope that we start either producing some more sparky loco's or letting a few of the foreign one's over.

 

[jopsuk]

I don't know why SNCF don't allow TGVs over here, there not the same length, even in double form there 2 coaches short of a single eurostar.

For safety, the Eurostars are designed so that they can be split in the middle- after squeezing everyone onto one half using the corridor connections. One power car can then pull it's half out of the tunnel, leaving the other one burning in the tunnel (being the reason why they'd want to split). In theory, anyway. As TGV sets are fully articulated throughout, they can't pull off this trick.

I take it HS1 is fully built to Berne loading gauge, including at stations?

I have seen somewhere, though I can't find it again, something about plans to reconfigure Duplex sets so that the power car is removed from one end, and the outer bogie of the carriage rake replaced with one of the AGV bogies- as so many services on the Sud-Est now operate as double Duplex sets, they're almost permanently in multiple formation. With suitable coupling and connection between the half-sets, surely those could then work through to St Pancras? Not that that capacity is currently required.

 

[Nym]

Well, I think germany might be looking at building somthing nice and running them round, since they now own EWS and therefore have paths from the NLL to erm, Manchester

Would be a nice long sleeper trip, but we may eventualy see the nightstar services to berlin

 

[Phoenix]

Well, I think germany might be looking at building somthing nice and running them round, since they now own EWS and therefore have paths from the NLL to erm, Manchester

Would be a nice long sleeper trip, but we may eventualy see the nightstar services to berlin

Oh god Don't say the word Nightstar it's almost like a curse but you have a good point about cross continental services.
Although would this require new traction being built to a whole european specification.

 

[Nym]

Well, if anyone can do it, the Germans can...

It's about time Seimens did some high speed stock for the UK, Alstom have, as have Bombardier and Hitachi, it's Seimens AG's turn now

Or we could have a variation on the Japanise Bullet Train by Heckler and Koch GmBH hehehe

 

[Phoenix]

Well, if anyone can do it, the Germans can...

It's about time Seimens did some high speed stock for the UK, Alstom have, as have Bombardier and Hitachi, it's Seimens AG's turn now

Or we could have a variation on the Japanise Bullet Train by Heckler and Koch GmBH hehehe

Noooooo I want some loco's send of the BR150 class locos !!!!!!

 

[Guinness]

I don't know why SNCF don't allow TGVs over here, there not the same length, even in double form there 2 coaches short of a single eurostar.

Channel Tunnel regulations say trains needs to be in 2 sections in case of tunnel fire so one section can be driven out if need be. TGVs don't have this feature unlike Eurostars.

 

[Crompton Karl]

Channel Tunnel regulations say trains needs to be in 2 sections in case of tunnel fire so one section can be driven out if need be. TGVs don't have this feature unlike Eurostars.

However, there have been rumours this could change as they never thought it through. Its fine having a train that can split itself in 2 and then reverse out of the tunnel, however, back in 96 when they did have a tunnel fire the first thing that failed was the overhead power supply. So this feature, unless a rescue Diesel loco could be sent quickly, is useless.

From what i have seen, there is the option of the TGV/AGV duplex combination spoken earlier and also Eurostar are now starting to plan for their replacements as the Units are 15 years old and they start planning for replacement stock at least 10 years before they enter service. It would not surprise me to see shorter 8 coach units coupled together with Multipull destinations in the future for Eurostar.


Karl

 

[djw1981]

Also with Air France moving into trains; one of the routes Air France want more flights on is London-Paris, because they want more people to do longhaul flights with Air France from Paris CDG airport, not Heathrow. Thus if they ran trains from St Pancras to Paris CDG included in the longhaul airfare, this may win many travelers because the journey time from the city would be not that much longer than the hassle of getting to Heathrow and through security.

They will also be targetting Berlin, Brussels etc with the addon fares to try and stymie their rivals.