Class 395 eventual replacement ideas.

[Class 800]

It will still be a long while before the 395s are even considered for replacement, but when they are, what do you think a replacement would look like?
I've never seen a high speed train with 2 sets of double (not single) doors for instance, do we need that?

 

[Mikey C]

It will still be a long while before the 395s are even considered for replacement, but when they are, what do you think a replacement would look like?
I've never seen a high speed train with 2 sets of double (not single) doors for instance, do we need that?

They're single doors.

And yes, the 1/2 2/3 door layout is necessary, when they're trundling down the classic lines, especially through the Medway towns, when they are effectively providing a local service.

 

[Class 800]

They're single doors.

And yes, the 1/2 2/3 door layout is necessary, when they're trundling down the classic lines, especially through the Medway towns, when they are effectively providing a local service.

No, I get that, I meant in any potential replacement to the 395s, is it worth having the standard 1/3 2/3 double doors instead of the wide single doors, as on the 395s?
Because up until now (including the 395s!) I've never seen a high-speed train with 1/3 2/3 double doors.

Also, I know reclassification will never happen, but purely hypothetically would the 395 be better placed as part of the 8xx classes?
They are high-speed, they are a Hitachi A-train, I don't know what the exact criteria are.

At risk of repeating the obvious, I think one thing that even I didn't expect when I first saw a 395, is that while they are high speed trains, they are high speed regional trains.
They do not provide, and are not intended to provide, an InterCity level of service.
If you look inside a 395 it is set out in a similar way to an Electrostar (or similar).
1/3 2/3 doors, no separated vestibules, each 6-car set has only 2 toilets, no catering or seat reservations.
Indeed they cannot attain HS1's top speed of 186 mph.

The InterCity trains operating on HS1 are the Eurostars, and they do provide all of those things.

 

[Trainguy34]

Also, I know reclassification will never happen, but purely hypothetically would the 395 be better placed as part of the 8xx classes?
They are high-speed, they are a Hitachi A-train, I don't know what the exact criteria are.

IIRC, it's because it's AC Overhead aswell as DC 3rd Rail.

I got this from Wikipedia so take it with a pinch of salt.

Diesel-mechanical and diesel-hydraulic multiple-unit sets	100–199
Diesel-electric multiple-unit sets	200–299
Multiple-unit sets powered by diesel and/or other fuels	600–699
DC electric multiple-unit sets	400–599
AC and AC/DC electric multiple-unit sets	300–399 and 700–749
Multi-mode multiple-unit sets	750–799
High-speed multiple-unit / fixed-formation sets	800–899
Infrastructure maintenance and other non-passenger multiple-unit / fixed-formation sets	900–999

 

[AJDesiro]

IIRC, it's because it's AC Overhead aswell as DC 3rd Rail.

I got this from Wikipedia so take it with a pinch of salt.

Diesel-mechanical and diesel-hydraulic multiple-unit sets	100–199
Diesel-electric multiple-unit sets	200–299
Multiple-unit sets powered by diesel and/or other fuels	600–699
DC electric multiple-unit sets	400–599
AC and AC/DC electric multiple-unit sets	300–399 and 700–749
Multi-mode multiple-unit sets	750–799
High-speed multiple-unit / fixed-formation sets	800–899
Infrastructure maintenance and other non-passenger multiple-unit / fixed-formation sets	900–999

They could easily fit into the 8xx category, but they were designated before the new 2011 spec, hence making the designation under 3xx the correct one, so there's not really any need to change it.

 

[Doomotron]

No, I get that, I meant in any potential replacement to the 395s, is it worth having the standard 1/3 2/3 double doors instead of the wide single doors, as on the 395s?

Having double-doors would be difficult with the pressure they will face when another train passes at full speed. In fact I think (not certain, could be my memory, I haven't read about the original tender for a while) the spec was for double doors but it just couldn't be done. That said the 395 didn't meet the specifications for the tender in a number of areas, but that's what happens with an order as specific as the 395s. IIRC the tender included a point that they needed to have front access (like Electrostars and 319s) for the Shakespeare tunnels which never happened for obvious reasons.

Because up until now (including the 395s!) I've never seen a high-speed train with 1/3 2/3 double doors.

That's because even worldwide there are many trains that need to be like the 395s.

 

[Class 800]

Having double-doors would be difficult with the pressure they will face when another train passes at full speed. In fact I think (not certain, could be my memory, I haven't read about the original tender for a while) the spec was for double doors but it just couldn't be done. That said the 395 didn't meet the specifications for the tender in a number of areas, but that's what happens with an order as specific as the 395s. IIRC the tender included a point that they needed to have front access (like Electrostars and 319s) for the Shakespeare tunnels which never happened for obvious reasons.

That's because even worldwide there are many trains that need to be like the 395s.

What about three sets of single-leaf doors like on the Elizabeth line trains? At the same places as on the InterCity 800 series but one more in the middle.

 

[Doomotron]

What about three sets of single-leaf doors like on the Elizabeth line trains? At the same places as on the InterCity 800 series but one more in the middle.

That would decrease the amount of seating space. The triple doors on the 345s were controversial anyway, and I don't see what advantage three doors on each side for a 395 would have.

 

[DPWH2]

Their eventual replacements will be something like the 395s, dual voltage high speed EMUs, commuter-style 1/3 and 2/3 doors, with whatever nose styling is fashionable in the 2050s.

Except maybe this time they'll actually buy enough of them to run the service they want to run.