Class 390 refurb problem

[modernrail]

I am on a 390 and it is clear there is a problem with the refurb. Small in some ways but looks like a uniform issue and so large in that sense.

The attached photos show the corners of the arm rests have already frayed. Pretty much every arm rest in the carriage I am in is affected.

Obviously this is a design error. The corners must be far too susceptible to brushing.

What is the fix and will they fix it, or will we have newly refurbished trains with an instant problem that is just left to get worse?

A real shame as it is a good refurb otherwise.

 

[ScottGallagher]

I noticed this too when I travelled last month, surely there must be some sort of warranty on the material !

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

These won't be addressed.
There are already several other issues with the refurbishment which are starting to become more apparent - but ultimately, with the cash that the DfT was willing to authorise, this is what you get. Something that looks fairly decent when it's new, but isn't going to last.

I heard a rumour that Hitachi were quite concerned about the Avanti fit out options, similar issues raised with other operators.

 

[Russel]

I've seen a few centre arm rests where the padding is missing completely, so there's clearly quality issues.

 

[43096]

I noticed this too when I travelled last month, surely there must be some sort of warranty on the material !

You are assuming that it has been correctly specified in the first place!

 

[Skie]

The arm rests are pencil thin and far too low. Lots of issues with the refurb, not surprised the wearable items are looking rough already. The seats look faded on many of the sets that were early in the refurb program.

 

[Furrball]

The fridges in the centre of SP and 1st should be ripped out... they are rarely used and are SO noisy!

 

[modernrail]

These won't be addressed.
There are already several other issues with the refurbishment which are starting to become more apparent - but ultimately, with the cash that the DfT was willing to authorise, this is what you get. Something that looks fairly decent when it's new, but isn't going to last.

I heard a rumour that Hitachi were quite concerned about the Avanti fit out options, similar issues raised with other operators.

Ridiculous if it is the case. You can’t have things on a midlife refurb falling apart within the first months of what needs to be 15 years ish of service.

If is clearly going to need to be addressed and fixed.

Interested to know what the other issues are. The previous moquette looked good as new and so if the new one is already failing that is again ridiculous in the extreme.

 

[Mogz]

They’re very cheap and loose already, it must be said. Pity as the seats themselves are perfectly comfortable.

 

[ScottGallagher]

It might please the bean counters at tender stage but this approach just sums up the phrase buy cheap buy twice. No doubt Avanti /DFTwere warned but there you go.

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

Ridiculous if it is the case. You can’t have things on a midlife refurb falling apart within the first months of what needs to be 15 years ish of service.

If is clearly going to need to be addressed and fixed.

Interested to know what the other issues are. The previous moquette looked good as new and so if the new one is already failing that is again ridiculous in the extreme.

First class/standard premium seats the padding/headrests are detaching from the seat frames, the recline mechanisms are breaking (more because of age, as the seat frames wasn't replaced), the new tables are becoming etched through wear, and abuse. Whatever the table is made out of is too soft for this kind of use. It's obviously some kind of plastic.

The sealant between the new tables and the carriage wall/under windows (mainly in first class) is becoming manky as it is difficult to reach/clean, as well as gaps appearing in it.

For reasons unknown, the sockets are blowing more regularly - whilst easy enough to reset, it's unclear why this is happening more than earlier in the life of the 390.

I believe plans were drawn up and submitted as part of the winning Avanti bid for a refurbishment that was substantially better than what ended up happening, as post COVID, the DfT assumed control of most expenditure with inevitable results.

 

[Trackman]

The fridges in the centre of SP and 1st should be ripped out... they are rarely used and are SO noisy!

Never heard one switched on

 

[Bletchleyite]

The other one I've noticed is that the folding tables in the priority seats (not the seatback ones, the proper ones) are sagging - they are clearly not up to people standing/kneeling on them which inevitably happens.

I also think they will regret light coloured headrests in both classes as these will show up muck terribly.

I love the new Standard seats (have I said that enough?) but there are big quality/material specification issues with some of the rest of it.

 

[RailWonderer]

Good quality wears in, poor quality wears out. At least with the IETs they went so cheap with the plastic surface armrests and industrial with the moquette it can't wear out too badly because there isn't much to wear out, cushion sinking problems aside.

I love the new Standard seats (have I said that enough?) but there are big quality/material specification issues with some of the rest of it.

They are roomier but are quite hard after two and a half hours for me, and lack the spongey quality of the original Fiat Alstom seats. Anyway no more seat debates.

 

[rjames87]

I’ve noticed that 2 of the Pendolinos I’ve been on this week have struggled with the head and the carriages have water pouring from the ceiling at intervals, presumably because the air con isn’t working well. Don’t ever recall this being a fault on them before the refurb.

 

[GW43125]

I’ve noticed that 2 of the Pendolinos I’ve been on this week have struggled with the head and the carriages have water pouring from the ceiling at intervals, presumably because the air con isn’t working well. Don’t ever recall this being a fault on them before the refurb.

I remember having a similar issue in 2017, not something new!

 

[Tazi Hupefi]

I remember having a similar issue in 2017, not something new!

Exactly, wasn't something new - however, people do need to remember that the fleet and hardware, despite a refurb, is still aging - very little has been done to the HVAC systems.

Compounding matters is that there are increasingly frequent extremes in weather/ temperatures beyond it's original operational design/specification.

Constructed between 2001 and 2004, but largely based on technology from the late 90s (with some critical bits from the 70s and 80s!). (Yes some new vehicles/set got build later, but obviously based on original designs).

The Pendolino fleet is deceptive as it has largely aged surprisingly well, and doesn't look old, but it is still 20-25 years into being thrashed up and down the WCML fairly intensively.

 

[rjames87]

I remember having a similar issue in 2017, not something new!

I’m surprised I’ve never seen it before having travelled in them almost daily most days for the past 7 years. Makes me wonder if the system is just in need of servicing?

 

[londonmidland]

One other design flaw with the refurbishment - why do the tip down tables on the back of the seats have no ‘lip’ around them? Drinks and other items slide off extremely easily. Particularly so when the train tilts.

Speaking of which, the small round cutout to rest a paper cup in place is also missing. I’m always cautious of when purchasing a hot drink when placing it on these tables, fearing it’ll fall on the floor or myself.

 

[williamn]

added to this the still ongoing problems with credit card machines - my partner was stuck for 51/2 hours on an Avanti service at the weekend during which the shop was closed for the entire journey because of this.

 

[fgwrich]

One other design flaw with the refurbishment - why do the tip down tables on the back of the seats have no ‘lip’ around them? Drinks and other items slide off extremely easily. Particularly so when the train tilts.

Speaking of which, the small round cutout to rest a paper cup in place is also missing. I’m always cautious of when purchasing a hot drink when placing it on these tables, fearing it’ll fall on the floor or myself.

Seems to be a modern flaw with a number of table designs - I really dislike the big ones used in the IET with their slippery surface and unnecessarily curved table edges. I did the Pullman dining a few months ago and nearly lost a Tribute to the Berks and Hants.

 

[Class 800]

The fridges in the centre of SP and 1st should be ripped out... they are rarely used and are SO noisy!

I was traveling in Standard Premium on a hot day once… they were on but empty and I basically had the carriage to myself.

So I put my own water bottle in there for a bit and it did the trick.

 

[Snow1964]

Some irony in this thread, as Alstom put out Press Release yesterday saying they were successful in completing the class 390 refurb to an "as new" condition

The Alstom-built Pendolinos have served routes between London, Birmingham, Manchester, Liverpool, Glasgow and Edinburgh for close to 20 years, and the upgrade has returned the whole fleet to an ‘as new’ condition.

Customer benefits of the fleet overhaul include:

• 25,000 new, ergonomic Standard Class seats;
• Conversion of one First Class carriage on each of the 35 11-carriage Pendolinos to provide more than 2,000 extra Standard Class seats;
• The introduction of a new onboard shop;
• Improved lighting;
• Refurbished First Class and Standard Premium seats;
• Greater use of technology with customer-friendly passenger information screens;
• Additional luggage space in Standard Class;
• Power points at every seat;
• Refurbished toilets; and
• New carpets throughout using sustainable British wool.

Alstom completes the UK’s biggest fleet upgrade as final refurbished Pendolino returns to service

The £117 million investment has helped to deliver a step change in onboard experience

www.alstom.com

 

[Skie]

I’ve noticed that 2 of the Pendolinos I’ve been on this week have struggled with the head and the carriages have water pouring from the ceiling at intervals, presumably because the air con isn’t working well. Don’t ever recall this being a fault on them before the refurb.

During the heatwave in 2020 I was on one that had 3 coaches with failed AC all in a row. Wasn’t a fun walk back and forth to the shop, each coach was nearly 40c

And the occasional indoor rain from them is just condensate. Perfectly clean water but not nice to have it tip down on you.

 

[MattSGB]

I’ve noticed that 2 of the Pendolinos I’ve been on this week have struggled with the head and the carriages have water pouring from the ceiling at intervals, presumably because the air con isn’t working well. Don’t ever recall this being a fault on them before the refurb.

I was on an unrefurbished one a few years ago when water suddenly poured from the ceiling across the whole carriage when the breaks were applied. The front of the carriage got it worse as the breaking forced seemed to pool all the water to the front. It was a lot of water and many laptops got drenched on that journey.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Anyone know why they haven't replaced the reading light bulbs with LEDs? It seems odd to change all the rest of the lighting without changing these - other refurbishments have. Bit of a half job compared to how comprehensive the rest of it it?

 

[Trackman]

added to this the still ongoing problems with credit card machines - my partner was stuck for 51/2 hours on an Avanti service at the weekend during which the shop was closed for the entire journey because of this.

That old chestnut. Thought it was a code for lack of onboard staff.
Same in first when the Chef comes out and announces there is no hot drinks as the water heater is bust, but can bring some sarnies out. But where are the onboard staff???

 

[Christmas]

I noticed on the Pendolino I travelled on this afternoon that every armrest I inspected had fraying and wear on the leatherette, with several peeled back. A terrible design choice. The only real option is solid plastic replacement.

Secondly, the retention of the blue LEDs above the luggage racks is a mistake. Blue lightning at this intestity is both uncomfortable on the eye for those sitting near them and gives off a cold aura.

 

[Carlisle]

Secondly, the retention of the blue LEDs above the luggage racks is a mistake. Blue lightning at this intestity is both uncomfortable on the eye for those sitting near them and gives off a cold aura.

I haven’t noticed the 2 blue LEDs above most luggage racks being excessively bright or overwhelming unless the temperature in the coach is set too cold anyway .

 

[mountainpixel]

The fridges in the centre of SP and 1st should be ripped out... they are rarely used and are SO noisy!

Yes, please, I always try to avoid sitting next to them.