Class 387

[class387]

What is Southern CWN?

 

[whoosh]

What is Southern CWN?

A CWN is a Carriage Working Notice. It's a list of all stations where trains terminate, and show underneath each location, the departure times of trains together with what service that train arrived as. It will also show the class of train together with it's 'circuit number' - the diagram it's on. At some locations a platform number is given as well.

 

[class387]

A CWN is a Carriage Working Notice. It's a list of all stations where trains terminate, and show underneath each location, the departure times of trains together with what service that train arrived as. It will also show the class of train together with it's 'circuit number' - the diagram it's on. At some locations a platform number is given as well.

Oh, okay. are they published publically?

 

[physics34]

Oh, okay. are they published publically?

when i used to work in timetabling i remember them specifically saying "not for public use" on the front, lol

 

[MrB]

Oh, okay. are they published publically?

I believe they're available on the "ukmodernemu" yahoo group IIRC.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Are these the "station working books" carried by the despatch staff at the termini?

 

[Minstral25]

Rumour has it a 387 is due on the GN any day now and will be out and about over the next few weeks for various tests (dispatch etc.)

We were told at GTR stakeholders today that two 387's are already at Hornsey for driver training.

 

[Class377/5]

We were told at GTR stakeholders today that two 387's are already at Hornsey for driver training.

387106/114 did 5E80 20+58 Bedford CS to Hornsey Depot. Third unit moves this week for driver training starting very soon.

 

[Minstral25]

387106/114 did 5E80 20+58 Bedford CS to Hornsey Depot. Third unit moves this week for driver training starting very soon.

Yet they can't find enough units to run full length trains on their current services for passengers. Roll on the 700's

 

[jon0844]

Just passed Hornsey and seen 387114 and both 700s outside!

 

[Class377/5]

Yet they can't find enough units to run full length trains on their current services for passengers. Roll on the 700's

Fleet size is the same as it has been since 387/2 joined the fleet so this has nothing with train lengths.

 

[Minstral25]

Fleet size is the same as it has been since 387/2 joined the fleet so this has nothing with train lengths.

Still doesn't stop services regularly being 4 car when they are normally 8 - if they are that short of stock why not use the spare one or two sitting in Hornsey depot?

Yes I know - you need to train drivers - but surely they could be used until 700's start appearing in numbers so we can have a train service we can actually get on when it calls at our station.

 

[Class377/5]

Still doesn't stop services regularly being 4 car when they are normally 8 - if they are that short of stock why not use the spare one or two sitting in Hornsey depot?

Yes I know - you need to train drivers - but surely they could be used until 700's start appearing in numbers so we can have a train service we can actually get on when it calls at our station.

They are not sitting spare in Hornsey depot. They are being used. What TL has got is three brand new trains to replace three with maintenance requirement meaning availability actually goes up.

What's the difference of a 700 replacing them than a 387? Zero. In fact its better to replace with three extra red as you have nothing to change where as replacing a 387 required stock changes unless you replace an 8 with a 12 car meaning you don't get much updated stock and delay upgrades elsewhere.

 

[Class 466]

Two more 387/2s out on Thameslink today (both unbranded):

387206 (currently with 387129 on 2W32 1129 TBD - BDM)
387222 (currently with 387122 on 1W32 1235 BTN - BDM)

 

[Minstral25]

They are not sitting spare in Hornsey depot. They are being used. What TL has got is three brand new trains to replace three with maintenance requirement meaning availability actually goes up.

What's the difference of a 700 replacing them than a 387? Zero. In fact its better to replace with three extra red as you have nothing to change where as replacing a 387 required stock changes unless you replace an 8 with a 12 car meaning you don't get much updated stock and delay upgrades elsewhere.

Used for what? I only meant short term use in service. At Redhill we only get 4 peak Thameslink trains and they are all very full. However cancellations due to "more stock requiring maintenance than usual" or short forms with 4 instead of 8 car trains (meaning passengers cannot physically get on) has become almost daily (probably not quite but feels that way)

So why have 2 units sit at Hornsey for Driver Training and not add them back to the running fleet so those trains can run fully formed until the 700's become available.

Yes it may delay driver training but there are 365's and 317's that can stay at GN a little longer that no plans have been divulged for yet.

Once the 700's start coming online fully they can go back to Driver training - so hopefully not long now

With Southern cancelling 60% of our service daily - short forms or cancellations from Thameslink 387's are an extra pressure not needed.

 

[D365]

Do the Thameslink 387s (like the 377s before them) not come to Hornsey for tyre turning?

 

[westcoaster]

Do the Thameslink 387s (like the 377s before them) not come to Hornsey for tyre turning?

Normally done at selhurst if there is availability on the lathe.

 

[Class377/5]

Used for what? I only meant short term use in service. At Redhill we only get 4 peak Thameslink trains and they are all very full. However cancellations due to "more stock requiring maintenance than usual" or short forms with 4 instead of 8 car trains (meaning passengers cannot physically get on) has become almost daily (probably not quite but feels that way)

So why have 2 units sit at Hornsey for Driver Training and not add them back to the running fleet so those trains can run fully formed until the 700's become available.

Yes it may delay driver training but there are 365's and 317's that can stay at GN a little longer that no plans have been divulged for yet.

Once the 700's start coming online fully they can go back to Driver training - so hopefully not long now

With Southern cancelling 60% of our service daily - short forms or cancellations from Thameslink 387's are an extra pressure not needed.

I'll repeat this. I the amount of trains on Thameslink has not changed. If they are not to be used on TL to cover units going back they would be used by Gat Ex. Thameslink would be the same situation whether it would have the 387/2 or not. The actual shortage of new stock is on GatEx which sees a delay cascade to ensure Hornsey is the same.

Thameslink would be no different if this wasn't happening.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do the Thameslink 387s (like the 377s before them) not come to Hornsey for tyre turning?

No. They are done at Selhurst as pe 'Southern' maintenance agreement as they are part of Lovers Walk Fleet not Bedford fleet. The latter's lathe is Hornsey.

 

[JonathanH]

Two more 387/2s out on Thameslink today (both unbranded):

387206 (currently with 387129 on 2W32 1129 TBD - BDM)
387222 (currently with 387122 on 1W32 1235 BTN - BDM)

Thanks for the information

387129+387206 on 1W69 2140 Bedford to Brighton
387222+387122 on 2W80 2337 Brighton to Bedford

Gatwick Express seems to be stopping at East Croydon tonight as well - 387220+387210 working 1D54 2245 London Victoria to Gatwick Airport stopped in platform 2 at East Croydon as I boarded 1W69.

Also 387219+387211+387217 1U63 2350 Gatwick Airport to London Victoria and 387221 1D60 2330 London Victoria to Gatwick Airport

 

[gwr4090]

According to the latest issue of Modern Railways, GWR is now to get a total of 45 Class 387s, the first of which will enter service in September 2016. 8 are from the initial GWR order already under construction, 14 are from the Porterbrook speculative order, and a further 23 are from an additional new order now confirmed to be delivered from April to October 2017. Previous concerns that new 387s ccould not be produced after September 2016 have proved to be unfounded.

As a consequence Class 365s will not now be transferred to GWR. An additional 7 bimode AT300s will probably be ordered to cover Oxford fast services. Also all the Class 166s will remain at Reading for Gatwick services, so the idea of battery augmented Class 387s seems to have been dropped. A few Class 165 units will also stay at Reading to cover the Marlow branch.

David

 

[swt_passenger]

According to the latest issue of Modern Railways, GWR is now to get a total of 45 Class 387s, the first of which will enter service in September 2016. 8 are from the initial GWR order already under construction, 14 are from the Porterbrook speculative order, and a further 23 are from an additional new order now confirmed to be delivered from April to October 2017.

These exact numbers were discussed at length in this thread about a fortnight ago when first announced, so please lets not do it again...

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2589680&postcount=3150

I'm not trying to be critical, just that any particular magazine's publication dates don't always fit in with the news, Railway Gazette had covered it on 8th June.

 

[Domh245]

An additional 7 bimode AT300s will probably be ordered to cover Oxford fast services.

As this would be a follow on to the GWR 802 order, rather than the IEP order, it would follow that these units would have the "uprated" engines and larger fuel tanks, which would be rather superfluous for Oxford services. I wonder if these will be a follow on to that order, but be specced out as additional 800s

 

[JN114]

As this would be a follow on to the GWR 802 order, rather than the IEP order, it would follow that these units would have the "uprated" engines and larger fuel tanks, which would be rather superfluous for Oxford services. I wonder if these will be a follow on to that order, but be specced out as additional 800s

The additional engine power/range may well be superfluous, but additional units at the higher spec adds to flexibility.

 

[jimm]

As this would be a follow on to the GWR 802 order, rather than the IEP order, it would follow that these units would have the "uprated" engines and larger fuel tanks, which would be rather superfluous for Oxford services. I wonder if these will be a follow on to that order, but be specced out as additional 800s

That would depend on what you mean by Oxford fast services - since at least one every hour will be a Cotswold Line train, stepping up to two per per hour in the peaks.

AT300s with extra oomph to get up and down the Malvern Hills and Chipping Campden bank would not come amiss - indeed when the first AT300s were ordered it was made clear that they would be helping to cover some peak work on the Cotswold Line. If extra sets are indeed ordered, it seems a fair bet they will be full-bore AT300s, potentially allowing Class 800s previously intended for the Cotswold Line to work on jobs with more electric running and less demanding topography, such as Newbury/Bedwyn or just London-Oxford and back that might have had a 387 on them if the previous mix of 365s and 387s had eventually arrived.

 

[GodAtum]

I got on a Class 387/2 for 30 seconds. Still had a new smell but seats were hard.

 

[westcoaster]

387223 now also in service on TL duties, been on Luton-Wimbledon shuttles all day.

 

[Class377/5]

387223 now also in service on TL duties, been on Luton-Wimbledon shuttles all day.

That should be the last 387 for Thameslink now.

 

[class387]

Are these to facilitate the 387/1s to go to GN?

Speaking of which, is there any progress on those?

 

[Class377/5]

Are these to facilitate the 387/1s to go to GN?

Speaking of which, is there any progress on those?

They are to replace the 3x 387/1 which have already gone over.

What progress are you requiring?

 

[class387]

They are to replace the 3x 387/1 which have already gone over.

What progress are you requiring?

Just an update please?