Class 387

[Skimble19]

They pretty do have the same seating. However you wont have a choice of a 319 if you catch a Brighton train from next May.

The Class 700s have the same seats but have padding unlike the 377/6s.

EDIT:

387105/106/107 now have Thameslink branding.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/chris-chaplin/15573228047/

I'm guessing they've ditched the Green band that was running underneath the windows on the first few sets then?

 

[Bishopstone]

According to the diagram linked on one of the early pages, (in post #46 by Class377/5) the 387/1's 'allocated area' for first class is 22 seats split either side of the non-driving end doors of DMOS(A).

Which would be more than double the first class provision on a 377/5 (10 seats). The 377/2 and 319 have 12 seats.

I can't see that passing the scrutiny of Standard commuters.

 

[user15681]

Believe there are now some runs scheduled in the middle of the night, Bletchley - Willesden - Crewe - Bletchley, for the next month M-Th.

 

[Class377/5]

Which would be more than double the first class provision on a 377/5 (10 seats). The 377/2 and 319 have 12 seats.

I can't see that passing the scrutiny of Standard commuters.

Actually its not double. The 377/5 were built with 20 FC seats with it spilt on each end. Don't forget the 387s only have FC in a single location not two like the 377s.

Believe there are now some runs scheduled in the middle of the night, Bletchley - Willesden - Crewe - Bletchley, for the next month M-Th.

5B95 21+47 Bletchley TMD to Bletchley TMD via Rugby are in the system for 10/11/14 until 11/12/14 and 15/12/14 until 14/05/15.

Neither path this week have been used however.

 

[Bishopstone]

Actually its not double. The 377/5 were built with 20 FC seats with it spilt on each end. Don't forget the 387s only have FC in a single location not two like the 377s.

But the 377/5 have been running with one First Class end permanently declassified for several years, so the current provision is ten seats.

 

[Class377/5]

But the 377/5 have been running with one First Class end permanently declassified for several years, so the current provision is ten seats.

And? Comparing current edited situation (and not standard Govia practice) with unintroduced stock requires you to guess what is planned. And it doesn't mean things can't change, ie they declassify one unit to bring it down.

Long term the FC seating will go up as the 700s have 52 FC seats per unit (12s and 8s have same amount) anyway.

 

[Bishopstone]

And? Comparing current edited situation (and not standard Govia practice) with unintroduced stock requires you to guess what is planned. And it doesn't mean things can't change, ie they declassify one unit to bring it down.

Long term the FC seating will go up as the 700s have 52 FC seats per unit (12s and 8s have same amount) anyway.

What is the 'edited situation'? I can't see the original 377/5 specification of 20 seats has any relevance today, when they've been running around with 10 seats for a few years. Nor does Govia standard practice have any relevance: they haven't re-instated the second First Class compartment since taking over Thameslink.

I was merely pointing out that if the new stock ends up with 22 first class seats per unit - a doubling of current provision - that will be controversial. I stand by that view.

The number of seats allocated to First Class on the 700s is not necessarily fixed: they can drape anti-macassars over as many seats within the compartment as they wish.

The political pressure on the operators is to have less First Class seats, and not more: ref. FGW and the FCC decision to de-classify one end of the 377/5s.

 

[Class377/5]

What is the 'edited situation'? I can't see the original 377/5 specification of 20 seats has any relevance today, when they've been running around with 10 seats for a few years. Nor does Govia standard practice have any relevance: they haven't re-instated the second First Class compartment since taking over Thameslink.

I was merely pointing out that if the new stock ends up with 22 first class seats per unit - a doubling of current provision - that will be controversial. I stand by that view.

The number of seats allocated to First Class on the 700s is not necessarily fixed: they can drape anti-macassars over as many seats within the compartment as they wish.

The political pressure on the operators is to have less First Class seats, and not more: ref. FGW and the FCC decision to de-classify one end of the 377/5s.

The edited situation is that currently the FC situation is edited from its build.

Your own point over only labeling up part of the FC area has rendered your point over the 387 FC pointless.

I fail to see why you dismiss the set up when your trying to compare. Things can and do change.

 

[petersi]

Its also worth bearing in mind that this stock will only be used on thameslink for 3 years and could be less depending how the class 700 are delivered and commissioned.

 

[Fincra5]

Would be so much easier if none of our stock had 1st Class... no arguments with STD passengers. But no people want it.

 

[tsr]

A few points...

Given the Thameslink branding for (I am guessing) at least a couple of years, I am surprised the 387s with such branding have green doors. If this was known about, the reasons for choosing that over a standard DfT scheme would seem a little hazy.

But enough about the livery - which, although confusing when picking out a train at a multi-platformed station, is not the most important thing to be commented on.

I would agree that the First Class provision sounds like it is a little over-done, but I think two things are more important than the vanilla metric of "number of seats". Firstly, how the space is used. I don't know for sure, but my understanding is that the seats in First Class are broadly the same as those in Standard Class. Now, one of the most frequent comments I get about 377s is "Why would I/anyone else pay extra for these seats, as they are exactly the same and should be part of Standard?". I have to agree - privately, at least. It is all very well paying extra for a seat, and I agree that (in principle) that concept of commuter First Class should remain, but it would be nice to see both more of a visual differential (so people can tell - many tourists can't!) and, given the good posture but general "economy" feel of the Standard Class seating, a little more comfort and space. So, really, I think "use of space" should be a better metric than "number of seats", and for those who complain about said "number of seats", at least they would not be able to statistically find a very poor ratio of Standard-to-First seating.

Secondly, it would be nice to have First Class properly identified in a fixed position in each new 377. Even some conductors are now struggling to identify the location of First Class in the new 377/6 & /7 units, since the antimacassars keep disappearing, the stickers end up in different places, there is little by way of a differing colour scheme or seat textile pattern, and, in any case, the actual intended position seems to differ on a whim. If there are any changes in First Class provision again, and indeed with the current differences between various Electrostars, a very clear brief really needs to be provided to revenue-related staff, and customers need far better visual indications.

I am not at all against First Class seating being provided. Provided it can both meet demand and not be unduly empty in the peak, it can provide extra value for customers who feel the need for a bit more space, and also enables fully First Class through journeys/ticketing. If it is well-appointed with added features such as power sockets and larger tables, it may even be a useful haven for work or for longer journeys. I don't necessarily agree with the pricing levels or structure, that being said. But aside from that, it needs to be well-marked and differentiated. I do feel that the 700s show promise in this regard, except for the deeply appalling prototype seating. However, the Electrostars are what we have for now, and what have to be used in the best way possible.

 

[jon0844]

Would make sense if the FC section will be in the end section (like on the 377/2&5s) to avoid confusing the poor passengers.

Poor passengers have no need to worry about where First Class is.

 

[Class377/5]

387110 now being dragged as 7X33 17+20 Litchurch Lane to Bletchley CS.

First 387s for service will transfer from Bletchley tomorrow morning as 5Z54 09+06 Bletchley TMD to Lovers Walk via Brighton station.

EDIT:

387105/106 were units transferring as expected.

 

[samj]

When are these due to enter traffic with Thameslink? Itching to get some photos of them.

 

[Class377/5]

When are these due to enter traffic with Thameslink? Itching to get some photos of them.

End of the month. First two are having exams and checks to then be signed over to Southern who will then release them for GTR.

 

[Voyager 2093]

387109 coupled possibly to 108 spotted at Wembley Yard with displays for Folkestone.

 

[Class377/5]

387109 coupled possibly to 108 spotted at Wembley Yard with displays for Folkestone.

They are off to Crewe today and Brighton tomorrow. Usual timings in place.

 

[letso53]

End of the month. First two are having exams and checks to then be signed over to Southern who will then release them for GTR.

Is it correct to assume that they will enter into service on the Bedford/Brighton route, and that a pair of 319's will be taken out of service instead?

 

[Class377/5]

Is it correct to assume that they will enter into service on the Bedford/Brighton route, and that a pair of 319's will be taken out of service instead?

They will operate on the Bedford to Brighton route as they will be based at Lovers Walk depot. 319s won't be out of service straight away but stand by.

 

[Temple Meads]

Anyone know what they're likely to be doing this coming Friday (21/11)?

 

[jonboy]

sorry but what times are they coming down to Brighton ?

 

[Class377/5]

For paths look at page 22 and you'll get your answers. They have been following the same general pattern.

 

[jonboy]

thank you for the reply

 

[letso53]

They will operate on the Bedford to Brighton route as they will be based at Lovers Walk depot. 319s won't be out of service straight away but stand by.

Thanks, that sounds like good news, hopefully fewer short formations for a while - before they do get transferred.

 

[swt_passenger]

Thanks, that sounds like good news, hopefully fewer short formations for a while - before they do get transferred.

'Fewer short formations' is an unlikely effect, because the whole idea has always been that as these 387s arrive other existing stock leaves, broadly on an equal in/out basis, with only a short period of overlap allowed for contingencies.

 

[fgwrich]

A little bit of a news recycling story from the DfT with regards to the 387s. It does however show confirmation of the long mooted second batch for Gat Ex.

Massive investment in new carriages for Gatwick Express and Thameslink routes to transform journeys for millions.

Railway track

Plans for hundreds of new carriages on Gatwick Express and Thameslink routes have been welcomed by Rail Minister Claire Perry, following more than £300 million of investment by the rail industry.

Govia Thameslink Railway (GTR) has today (18 November 2014) agreed a £145 million order for 108 new carriages to replace the existing Gatwick Express fleet. The new carriages will be built in the UK by Derby-based Bombardier and are due to enter service in 2016.

In a further boost for passengers, GTR and Southern Railways has also confirmed that 116 new carriages will start to roll out on the Thameslink route between Bedford and Brighton from December. The carriages were ordered from manufacturer Bombardier last year and are due to replace the existing stock from May 2015 until the Siemens-built Thameslink trains enter service.

Once this fleet is operational, it will free up existing electric carriages to be released onto newly-electrified routes, creating additional capacity for passengers.

Rail Minister Claire Perry said:

“These new British built trains are great news for passengers and a boost for the economy. They will transform journeys on the Gatwick Express and Thameslink routes and safeguard jobs at Bombardier’s Derby factory.

“As part of our long term economic plan over £38 billion is being invested in improving our railways over the next 5 years and it’s great to see companies like GTR investing in the service it provides for its customers.”

Charles Horton, CEO of GTR and Managing Director of Southern, added:

“This is great news for our Gatwick passengers, but also for those travelling from Brighton, as in the off-peak some of these trains will be extended to there, while still maintaining the fast connection between Victoria and Gatwick.

“We took over the operation of the Thameslink route in September and already we are introducing new trains which will transform our passengers’ journeys on services between Bedford and Brighton.”



Rail media enquiries

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-trains-for-gatwick-express-and-thameslink

 

[WatcherZero]

Railway Gazette

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...dier-sign-gatwick-express-train-contract.html

UK: Passenger franchisee Govia Thameslink Railway announced on November 18 that it had signed a £145·2m order for 27 four-car Bombardier Electrostar Class 387/2 electric multiple-units for use on Gatwick Express services.

The EMUs are scheduled to enter service between London Victoria and Gatwick Airport in 2016, with some services continuing to Brighton off-peak. The Electrostars will replace 1980s-built Class 442 units which have operated Gatwick Express services since 2008, and according to GTR will be ‘specially designed for the rail-air route with easier boarding, better luggage space, 2+2 seating and wi-fi.’

The contract is a follow-on to a previous order for 116 Class 387/1 cars which Govia company Southern placed in July 2013. These were ordered on behalf of the Department for Transport, for interim use by GTR on the Thameslink route between Bedford, London and Brighton from December 2014 until 2016 when the new Siemens Class 700 Desiro City fleet is expected to be in service. By May 2015 ‘virtually every train’ on the Thameslink Bedford – Brighton service group will be an Electrostar according to GTR, enabling the current fleet of Class 319 EMUs to be redeployed elsewhere in the country as part of DfT’s electrification programme.

GTR said the Class 387/1 and 387/2 fleets represent a rolling stock investment of £317m, financed by Porterbrook Leasing.

 

[railfanatic]

Great news for us here in Derby

 

[westcoaster]

There should be a night test train sometime this week for testing to bedford.

 

[Class377/5]

There should be a night test train sometime this week for testing to bedford.

Paths in for return journey on Saturday.