Class 387

[JonathanH]

As P5/6 at Gatwick will have a seperate gateline soon the likelyhood of on board ticket checks is tending to zero.

Are they going to be able to dedicate platforms 5 and 6 to only serving Gatwick Express services? At present, there seem to be a number of non-Gatwick Express services which serve platform 5 (eg Arun Valley services) and the up Gatwick Express trains from Brighton currently serve platform 4.

Can up Gatwick Express trains from Brighton cross over to platform 5 / 6 without causing an issue for down services?

However, it makes a lot of sense to do this given that Gatwick Express services can end up not using platforms 13 and 14 at Victoria. Makes you wonder why they didn't do it before introducing Oyster / Contactless on the route. I assume that interchange to platforms 5 and 6 will require passing through a barrier?

 

[Harbon 1]

Just wondering where we are at with the delivery of the 387/2's? Does anyone have an update.

Although I can't say for certain what has and hasn't been delivered, 227 was knocking about on the sale line last week. No idea if it's been through test yet, and I'm not back on site for another 5 weeks at least so can't have a poke around.

 

[Hophead]

Are they going to be able to dedicate platforms 5 and 6 to only serving Gatwick Express services? At present, there seem to be a number of non-Gatwick Express services which serve platform 5 (eg Arun Valley services) and the up Gatwick Express trains from Brighton currently serve platform 4.

Can up Gatwick Express trains from Brighton cross over to platform 5 / 6 without causing an issue for down services?

In general, yes, as down services tend to run through, or stop, at platform 7 and, when that was constructed, a connection was provided south of the station giving a link from the up fast into 5 & 6.

Peak hours are another matter however, with some trains still hurtling (or dawdling, depending on conditions) through platform 5.

Just re-read your comment about the Arun Valley services and was surprised to find them using platform 5. There seems to be no reason why they shouldn't also use platform 7, or even cross to platform 3.

 

[hwl]

Are they going to be able to dedicate platforms 5 and 6 to only serving Gatwick Express services? At present, there seem to be a number of non-Gatwick Express services which serve platform 5 (eg Arun Valley services) and the up Gatwick Express trains from Brighton currently serve platform 4.

Can up Gatwick Express trains from Brighton cross over to platform 5 / 6 without causing an issue for down services?

However, it makes a lot of sense to do this given that Gatwick Express services can end up not using platforms 13 and 14 at Victoria. Makes you wonder why they didn't do it before introducing Oyster / Contactless on the route. I assume that interchange to platforms 5 and 6 will require passing through a barrier?

It is going to be bit of c*ck up if they can't! Am peak might be tricky but should be do-able.
Well it needed P7 works and now works on the concourse doing to. It looks like they are aiming for a big bang opening combined with mass introduction of 387.

P4& 5 are ideal for the non stopping up fast services so splitting the services will be tricky, I suspect this is the aim?:

P4 UP non stopping and SN/TL fast lines stopping.
P5 UP Gatex (including terminators) + Down fast non stopping
P6 Down Gatex (including terminators)
P7 Down fast SN/TL stopping

Suspect it won't work 100% in reality.

 

[Class377/5]

Although I can't say for certain what has and hasn't been delivered, 227 was knocking about on the sale line last week. No idea if it's been through test yet, and I'm not back on site for another 5 weeks at least so can't have a poke around.

It was at Derby yesterday. Only one not delivered.

 

[Deepgreen]

1st is the same as standard... but with headrest covers.. oooooooooh

If on-board ticket checks cease, then there will be nothing to stop those eager passengers heading for the luxury of the first class - oh, hang on...!

GTR's policy on 1st is, like almost all of their other operations, in complete disarray. Every day I witness passengers invading first with no fear of being challenged and openly stating between themselves that they have standard tickets but will never be caught. 99%+ of them are right. The very rare TTI checks almost always fail to target the right parts of the journey, allowing so many to get away with it, while guard/conductor checks have completely ceased of late (for other reasons I assume).

 

[Bishopstone]

If on-board ticket checks cease, then there will be nothing to stop those eager passengers heading for the luxury of the first class - oh, hang on....

Ticket checks on GatEx have been very rare for years, in my experience. And if you sound as though you might have an overseas address, they ignore any ticketing breaches and move on: a handy loophole for the savvy.

To be fair, GatEx ticket restrictions are complicated enough in English, let alone translated through the medium of Finnish.

Overall, the 387s will be acceptable replacement stock in my view, though I have already seen some 4-car vice 8 or 12 formations on the Brighton extensions, which represents a considerable loss of seating over even 1x442. At least the 700s can't suffer from endemic micro-train short forms.

 

[palmersears]

I'm down in London for a days spotting on Saturday, where is the best spot for seeing the 387/2s? Victoria? Or are some working out of London Bridge in addition?

 

[jon0844]

Overall, the 387s will be acceptable replacement stock in my view,

The trains are fine, but they should have been fitted out like the 379s IMO. A decent first class area that's actually worth paying for, or nothing at all.

 

[physics34]

The trains are fine, but they should have been fitted out like the 379s IMO. A decent first class area that's actually worth paying for, or nothing at all.

yep, its baffling. Cannot see why having better seating wasnt considered especially as they should get 30 odd good years out of these units.

 

[Mordac]

Am I right in assuming the units are limited to 100mph on 3rd rail?

 

[bengley]

Am I right in assuming the units are limited to 100mph on 3rd rail?

90 on the routes they run on.

 

[Bishopstone]

The trains are fine, but they should have been fitted out like the 379s IMO. A decent first class area that's actually worth paying for, or nothing at all.

I am sure Bombardier would have fitted some larger seats into the first class section, if asked.

The fact they were instructed to fit identical seating throughout, by the client (ie DFT, ultimately), might suggest a Standard-only future for this TOC.

That's been my theory for several months, and I'm sticking with it until I'm proved right, even if that takes twenty years...

 

[cactustwirly]

I'm down in London for a days spotting on Saturday, where is the best spot for seeing the 387/2s? Victoria? Or are some working out of London Bridge in addition?

No workings to London Bridge, for 387s Gatwick is best (both GX & TL)
If you only want 387/2s you'll be looking for a needle in a haystack, I believe there is only 1 diagram.

 

[AM9]

90 on the routes they run on.

No stock is cleared for more than 100mph on any 3rd rail track. 3rd rail current collection is unreliable enough at speed anyway so 100mph is the absolute limit in revenue service.

 

[Kite159]

No workings to London Bridge, for 387s Gatwick is best (both GX & TL)
If you only want 387/2s you'll be looking for a needle in a haystack, I believe there is only 1 diagram.

However I probably wouldn't recommend hanging around an airport station for too long (unless you talk with the station management team to let them know what you are doing)

 

[bengley]

No stock is cleared for more than 100mph on any 3rd rail track. 3rd rail current collection is unreliable enough at speed anyway so 100mph is the absolute limit in revenue service.

I know! 387s often take until Quarry tunnel to get to 90 after leaving Croydon, whereas the 377s tend to get there a bit sooner.

 

[Bald Rick]

I am sure Bombardier would have fitted some larger seats into the first class section, if asked.

The fact they were instructed to fit identical seating throughout, by the client (ie DFT, ultimately), might suggest a Standard-only future for this TOC.

That's been my theory for several months, and I'm sticking with it until I'm proved right, even if that takes twenty years...

I'd be inclined to agree with you, but that doesn't fit with the different seats fitted to the first class in every Class 700, more than half of which will be declassified in service at any one time from 2018 onwards!

First class provision by Southern / Southeastern and TL is a farce to be honest.

 

[Class 170101]

I know! 387s often take until Quarry tunnel to get to 90 after leaving Croydon, whereas the 377s tend to get there a bit sooner.

Why? I thought they were essentially the same train.

 

[southern442]

Why? I thought they were essentially the same train.

377/6's and /7's, yes, but the older sub classes of 377 are very different in terms of wiring etc.

 

[Philip C]

No stock is cleared for more than 100mph on any 3rd rail track. 3rd rail current collection is unreliable enough at speed anyway so 100mph is the absolute limit in revenue service.

I was caught up in last Thurday's wiring problems in the Doncaster area reaching Edinburgh 121" late. On two occasions in the past I've been on trains which have brought the wires down (once at Harlow Mill and once at Hackney Downs) both of which were disconcerting experiences. On numerous occasions journeys have been delayed by wires being down or similar problems.

On the other hand, in a total of 27 years of daily travel between the Sussex Coast and London, I have no recollection of being on a train which has displaced a third rail or suffered shoe damage to the point where progress has become impossible. I will, however, admit to having experienced delays through overnight rain having frozen on the third rail.

My overall view is that overhead wiring has potential, when its teething problems are resolved. Meanwhile at 80mph, 90mph or even a little more, the third rail works very well for me.

 

[Class377/5]

No workings to London Bridge, for 387s Gatwick is best (both GX & TL)
If you only want 387/2s you'll be looking for a needle in a haystack, I believe there is only 1 diagram.

Currently, diagram wise, its

12x weekdays
3x Saturdays
2x Sunday

However that's all changing this weekend with more 387s on GX services from Monday.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Anywhere between East Croydon and Gatwick will produce slightly more 387/2s for sight than Victoria / Clapham Junction; don't forget there are three on loan to Thameslink...

 

[Class377/5]

GWR has ordered a total of 45 387 with the first in service on the 5th September.

 

[Deepgreen]

I was caught up in last Thurday's wiring problems in the Doncaster area reaching Edinburgh 121" late. On two occasions in the past I've been on trains which have brought the wires down (once at Harlow Mill and once at Hackney Downs) both of which were disconcerting experiences. On numerous occasions journeys have been delayed by wires being down or similar problems.

On the other hand, in a total of 27 years of daily travel between the Sussex Coast and London, I have no recollection of being on a train which has displaced a third rail or suffered shoe damage to the point where progress has become impossible. I will, however, admit to having experienced delays through overnight rain having frozen on the third rail.

My overall view is that overhead wiring has potential, when its teething problems are resolved. Meanwhile at 80mph, 90mph or even a little more, the third rail works very well for me.

You were fortunate not have travelled on 30 April last year, then, when the juice rail was tipped over by a 377 formation near Clapham Junction, ripping its shoes off. Wrongly-replaced rail by contractors after overnight works, so not the fault of the train or the current distributiion system.

Was the word choice an electrical pun?!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Anywhere between East Croydon and Gatwick will produce slightly more 387/2s for sight than Victoria / Clapham Junction; don't forget there are three on loan to Thameslink...

Except from Stoat's Nest to Redhill via Merstham! Pedantic, moi?

 

[swt_passenger]

GWR has ordered a total of 45 387 with the first in service on the 5th September.

Is this news tending to support the idea (from a few weeks back) that GWR would no longer get any 365s, and the overall numbers would be made up by using additional AT300s?

I guess it will all become apparent a bit at a time over the months...

 

[AM9]

You were fortunate not have travelled on 30 April last year, then, when the juice rail was tipped over by a 377 formation near Clapham Junction, ripping its shoes off. Wrongly-replaced rail by contractors after overnight works, so not the fault of the train or the current distributiion system.

Well it was due to a significant lack of robustness of the 3rd rail system.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was caught up in last Thurday's wiring problems in the Doncaster area reaching Edinburgh 121" late. On two occasions in the past I've been on trains which have brought the wires down (once at Harlow Mill and once at Hackney Downs) both of which were disconcerting experiences. On numerous occasions journeys have been delayed by wires being down or similar problems.

On the other hand, in a total of 27 years of daily travel between the Sussex Coast and London, I have no recollection of being on a train which has displaced a third rail or suffered shoe damage to the point where progress has become impossible. I will, however, admit to having experienced delays through overnight rain having frozen on the third rail.

My overall view is that overhead wiring has potential, when its teething problems are resolved. Meanwhile at 80mph, 90mph or even a little more, the third rail works very well for me.

3rd rail fails to deliver on more than one count:

It is energy inefficient to an unacceptable degree
It becomes unreliable for current collection as speeds approach the practical maximum of 100mph. Indeed, even near those speeds, maintenance needs rise sharply
As has been mentioned, ice and heavy rain causes reliability issues
High ambient temperatures can cause rail misalignment

So compared to failures of modern OLE infrastructure, it is best avoided where possible.

 

[Domh245]

GWR has ordered a total of 45 387 with the first in service on the 5th September.

Are these outside of the orders already known?

 

[Astradyne]

Are these outside of the orders already known?

A mix of new, existing and Porterbrook

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ew/gwr-finalises-thames-valley-emu-order.html

Above would indicate these replace the GTR 387s

 

[Domh245]

A mix of new, existing and Porterbrook

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/...ew/gwr-finalises-thames-valley-emu-order.html

Above would indicate these replace the GTR 387s

So the family tree looks something like this?