bramling
Veteran Member
One way or the other we should never have announcements which erroneously use the word emergency. That could potentially cause a panic situation. I regard that as more serious than accessibility.
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Class 387 to GN
- Thread starter crazystripe
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One way or the other we should never have announcements which erroneously use the word emergency. That could potentially cause a panic situation. I regard that as more serious than accessibility.
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RailUK Forums
Surely it's better for all passengers to have no announcements rather than incorrect ones.
How does announcing that the train is approaching Huntingdon when it's actually pulling into Welwyn North or Stevenage (and simultaneously displaying Finsbury Park on the screen) help?
As mentioned above using the word 'emergency' in an announcement when there isn't an emergency is just wrong.
Switch it off and get the drivers to make manual announcements until it can be fixed.
bramling
Veteran Member
Agree with all of this. It's all part of the GTR package of incompetence, symptomatic of an operator that doesn't know or doesn't care what it is doing.
Then perhaps GTR should have bothered to test their software and configuration before deploying it. Or perhaps the drivers should make manual announcements and GTR should make sure station signs are well lit and visible from train windows.
If they get fined for it, then good. It is not too much to ask for passengers to know where they are and where they are going. It's 2017, functioning passenger information is not some great uncharted research domain where nobody knows what they're doing.
Making incorrect announcements discriminates against disabled people too.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Hopefully they are getting fined every day at the moment then. Did it work on Thameslink? I mean how do people now if they are in coaches east coast to grand central?
Lots of drivers are making announcements including apologies for the nonsense it is spouting. I guess it can't be switched of otherwise the one that thought it was still on a Peterborough- London service in letchworth would be switched off.
It does amaze me when a GTR employee defends this incompetent company with it is the law. Yes it is. It was known about by the passengers since December. Therefore if it is illegal they should be sorting as a priority or putting 317s on all the splitting trains. (Which is in GTRs control) yes it messes up diagrams put complying with the law should be more important than diagrams. The fact it is known about for nearly 2 months (by passengers) and it isn't a priority to fix or workaround speaks volumes. I am amazed some staff think the situation is acceptable as well. What will it take a blind traveller stuck at Royston because they were in the cross country coach to focus on fixing this hitting the press?
Lots of drivers are making announcements including apologies for the nonsense it is spouting. I guess it can't be switched of otherwise the one that thought it was still on a Peterborough- London service in letchworth would be switched off.
It does amaze me when a GTR employee defends this incompetent company with it is the law. Yes it is. It was known about by the passengers since December. Therefore if it is illegal they should be sorting as a priority or putting 317s on all the splitting trains. (Which is in GTRs control) yes it messes up diagrams put complying with the law should be more important than diagrams. The fact it is known about for nearly 2 months (by passengers) and it isn't a priority to fix or workaround speaks volumes. I am amazed some staff think the situation is acceptable as well. What will it take a blind traveller stuck at Royston because they were in the cross country coach to focus on fixing this hitting the press?
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urpert
Member
It seemed to work fine on Thameslink, even the unusual routes (e.g. Bedford - Beckenham Jn).
They can only comfortable for people under 4'6", otherwise it is as if you are sat on the floor.
Then there is the need to 'interlink' your knees with the person sat opposite, because the facing seats are too close.
The pairs of seats are spaced too close to each other, and as for the triple seats...
No, they are rubbish trains quite unsuited for the lengthy journeys on Great Northern and need to be scrapped asap.
Failed Unit
Established Member
Just thinking of the last time we had a capacity reduction because of new trains on the route. When the 317s were refurbished. I don't recall such a backlash when it happened. The seats were much better (chapmans). But first class was "do you feel lucky punk" as it could be at the front or back of the train. However the route wasn't as busy then. I don't recall ever standing back then on an off peak service. (Or the peak ones I used for that matter - but I never used high peak back then)
As for scrapping trains because of the seats. Refurbishment works look at the 316/6 and some of the better 150s. The 387s are good trains, but poorly specified. First class position is bizarre for many reasons but why not put it near the universal access toilet?
As for scrapping trains because of the seats. Refurbishment works look at the 316/6 and some of the better 150s. The 387s are good trains, but poorly specified. First class position is bizarre for many reasons but why not put it near the universal access toilet?
Failed Unit
Established Member
As I am currently on a 321. The seats are lower than the 387s. Should add watching the 0904 kx - Cambridge pass they maybe happy with the new train. When I use the 0834 Letchworth - London it works as everyone gets a seat. It is when I physically can't board i object when I could in the past.
Class377/5
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When did I say it is the law please? It amazes me when people make things up to attack on this forum. I stated its important to consider other groups.
Class377/5
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That's because it used the same database as the 377/5 so was already in existence. The GN database its completely brand new (even the 377/5 on introduction weren't wholly new for parts south of the river).
Mordac
Established Member
bramling
Veteran Member
So how about GTR actually provide a system that works then? Random messages about brake controls benefit no one, and it is a nonsense to have the system announcing and displaying that the train is approaching Finsbury Park when it's actually approaching Stevenage. That is worse than useless as it is misleading to the very people that the system is aimed at. I haven't yet been on a GN 387 where there hasn't been some kind of issue with the PIS.
To be fair, the system on the 317s is pretty unreliable too. The 365 system is excellent, but for the fact it is stuck with 1997 stopping patterns. Being cynical, one could say GTR has had over 2 years to make improvements here but has not bothered.
D365
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When it works.
Which is not often.
I believe FCC lost the discs containing the software! I'm not sure whether it's an issue of some of the systems on the 365s not working or the drivers not switching it on.
I am surprised that the PIS on the 365s wasn't upgraded at the recent 'refresh'.
Failed Unit
Established Member
It is how I interpreted you defence of GTRs incompetence rather than making something up. If my interpretation was incorrect i am sorry.
Irrespective i can see how other groups benefit from the current announcements. How do they know which coach east coast is. My view is if it spouts nonsense switch it off. What it is doing now is worse for these groups. Even GTR must realise. Perhaps I should highlight it to some of them so the can formally complain to DfT for GTR taking so long to address this serious issue.
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bramling
Veteran Member
I think it's simply a case that it can only be used where there is an option to call up the correct stopping pattern for the journey.
The stopping pattern options seem to be:
Finsbury Park, Potters Bar, Hatfield then all stations
Finsbury Park, Welwyn Garden City then all stations
Finsbury Park, Stevenage then all stations
Finsbury Park, Stevenage, Hitchin, Letchworth, Baldock, Royston, Cambridge then all stations
Letchworth, Royston, Cambridge then all stations
Cambridge fast then all stations
St. Neots, Huntington, Peterborough
Biggleswade, St Neots, Huntington, Peterborough (?)
with destinations of King's Cross, Letchworth, Peterborough, Cambridge, Ely or Kings Lynn.
I've never seen any other destination on the 365s.
I believe we may have a unit just fitted with a new system, although not sure if it's been in service yet.
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bramling
Veteran Member
That's not really true. If you travel off-peak then it's very rare for the system not to be used. I'd say less than once per 25 journeys is it blank at such times. It's pretty reliable too, very rare to get wrong information.
The issue is at peak times where there are journeys or stopping patterns which the system doesn't have available, for example KX-Hitchin-St Neots-Huntington-Peterborough, or anything starting or finishing at Royston. The other time an issue occurs is during engineering works or disruption. For example it's not able to work for a train terminating at Hitchin during engineering work.
bramling
Veteran Member
Might also be because WAGN's 317 refurbishment was also rather good. It introduced a better ambience complete with carpets, comfortable seats, and extra circulation space. 387s replacing 365s just doesn't do it.
bramling
Veteran Member
Is your friend Jeremy Corbyn by any chance?
I don't think there's much to interest Corbyn on the GN route. Once clear of London it's nowadays almost solid blue territory, almost guaranteed not to change whilst he is at Labour's helm, and no miners' galas or such like for him to be travelling to. So, surprisingly enough, the answer is no.
GTR could issue all passengers with a 'cheat sheet' that translates the onboard announcements. East Coast is coach 1 for example.
Maybe I should make one and hand it out. I bet they'd speed up the fixing then!
It's amazing that I (and others) reported it ages ago, yet it seemed to take a off-duty driver making a phone call on a train around Christmas time to get the ball rolling to fixing this problem. And now there are new ones relating to faults that I've never heard before.
It must be faulty code somewhere, not just incorrect voice files.
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Is your friend Jeremy Corbyn by any chance?
That's the solution.
Invite Jeremy along for a ride. Then the train will look like this.
At least that one has the correct "Priority Seat" stickers.. I was on one a couple of days ago that had stickers that told people to visit "southernrailway.com"
Sat on a 365 now where the display isn't working (the same as most days).
notverydeep
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Thinking about panicking passengers (with the Dalston incident also in mind). I have often wondered whether there have been any emergency alarm activations following the opening / closing of the circuit breakers located in the pantograph well, by the passengers sat beneath, though I have no access to any data.
The circuit breakers seem to activate whenever the trains pass a neutral section of OLE. On 387s these are really, really loud, much more so than any other GN type. More than once, I've been moved to comment that the noise was normal to visibly alarmed passengers. You got the same sort of thing at Farringdon Thameslink as the pantograph comes down on changeover. I always wondered whether a notice about the noise might mitigate this.
Last night alighting at Welwyn Garden City from 2C34 the last remaining splitting 317 working - the 1852 King's Cross to Cambridge - which unusually is booked to split at WGC, was short formed (still FCC blue 317347). I was surprised to see that on arrival, three of WGC's four platforms had 317s in, a third of the GN fleet with 337, 339 and 341 there as well. Perhaps the last time I'll see so many there at one time...
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Is this because you take the same service which has a non-standard stopping pattern (based on what was entered eons ago)?
bramling
Veteran Member
Care to post which service ...
bramling
Veteran Member
Don't forget the rough ride on the 387s. One gets thrown from side to side every time the train encounters rough track or a set of points. Far worse than 317s,321s or 365s. Made worse by the hard seats and intrusive armrests of course.
Class377/5
Established Member
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Wasn't actually reported to staff quickly but appeared on here first. Helps if reports come in as GTR doesn't read this forum these days.
However now told the fix has been sorted and shouldn't be having problems much longer. And cause identified (and I'm surprised it's so) but cant give details.
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