Class 387 to GN

[43074]

They shouldn't have

Not this again :roll: With the electrification running behind schedule what else were they to do?

 

[bramling]

It doesn't seem like any other operator has expressed interest in the 365s since after GWR changed their plans.

Keep all 40 on Great Northern, and use them to offer a residual service to/from King's Cross as an alternative to the unreliable and uncomfortable Thameslink service!

 

[notverydeep]

You'd hope the 387s could make it perfectly clear on board that some coaches aren't usable for certain stations, but I realise passengers can be idiots at times and not listen.

No reason not to have the message scrolling near constantly, along with stopping info etc. Heck, you could even give the message in some other languages too - which Gatwick Express seems to manage.

It would require the PIS to always be used though, so on second thoughts...

Clearly any use of SDO will have measures in place to mitigate the risk of it leading to delay. As you observe, the PIS is a key mitigation (but lineside signs visible to passengers on board are another). Announcements would confirm which car the passenger was in and where they would need to move to (and this would also be displayed in words). To minimise this distance of the move, the cars not accommodated would be split between both ends where possible. The location of signals and points and crossings would be the factor most likely to prevent this. At Hatfield on the down side, signals are close to the platform end, meaning that the SDO would mostly have to be at the rear. At WGC it may be possible to split the SDO, plus the platforms here can accommodate 9 cars, meaning that perhaps the SDO would be 1.5 cars at each end on platforms 2 and 3 (I am less sure of the signal positions on platform 1 and platform 4 is rarely used anyway).

Despite these mitigations, unfamiliarity and lack of understanding of PIS information or PIS failure would still catch people out and in some cases, this would lead to an Alarm Activation in a small proportion of such cases. These would though be very costly in terms of delay minutes at somewhere like Welwyn North. The relevant Work Place Risk Assessments are likely to note a slightly increased risk of staff assault from over-carried passengers at stations where they might end up. I previously worked on an appraisal (not GTR) which took account of these factors, which were used to quantify the benefits of platform extensions to justify avoiding SDO where possible – even though the rolling stock fully supports it.

 

[jon0844]

Platform extensions would certainly be favourable.I'd hope that at Hatfield, they built the car park such that they can allow for the platform to extend northwards.

And for platforms 2/3, I am not sure how much railway land there is to enable an extension there. There does seem to be quite a gap between 2/3 back behind the bridge (southwards) so maybe it could go back a bit, and forward a bit?

 

[notverydeep]

Platform extensions would certainly be favourable.I'd hope that at Hatfield, they built the car park such that they can allow for the platform to extend northwards.

And for platforms 2/3, I am not sure how much railway land there is to enable an extension there. There does seem to be quite a gap between 2/3 back behind the bridge (southwards) so maybe it could go back a bit, and forward a bit?

Oh I'm all for them extending the platforms at all of Hatfield, Welwyn Garden City and Welwyn North, to enable 12 car trains on the busiest services. To be honest I would be better off personally even if they used SDO to do it. Trouble is there is no plan to do so. What they are planning to do at the busiest times, is use the same length trains at the same frequency as now at all of these stations, only the new trains will have 37% fewer seats and stop at more stations between WGC or Hatfield and London...

 

[jon0844]

It is mad not to have at least some plan to extend the remaining platforms to allow for longer trains. Then, within the lifetime of the 700s, you'd imagine them being all turned into 12 car versions.

I could live with being told it will be 5 or 10 years from now, but at least knowing there's something planned would be reassuring.

That said, I'll likely accept a hit on time and just use the 717s instead. I expect they'll be pretty usable at most times, on account of the higher frequency, slower service (putting people off) and not having come from any further than WGC.

Oh, and they may not be affected by troubles in the core...

 

[bramling]

It is mad not to have at least some plan to extend the remaining platforms to allow for longer trains. Then, within the lifetime of the 700s, you'd imagine them being all turned into 12 car versions.

I could live with being told it will be 5 or 10 years from now, but at least knowing there's something planned would be reassuring.

That said, I'll likely accept a hit on time and just use the 717s instead. I expect they'll be pretty usable at most times, on account of the higher frequency, slower service (putting people off) and not having come from any further than WGC.

Oh, and they may not be affected by troubles in the core...

That's okay for you at Hatfield, if you don't mind the longer journey, but if too many people from WGC, Hatfield and Potters Bar start filling them up, then it will cause a problem further in.

 

[RobShipway]

It is mad not to have at least some plan to extend the remaining platforms to allow for longer trains. Then, within the lifetime of the 700s, you'd imagine them being all turned into 12 car versions.

I could live with being told it will be 5 or 10 years from now, but at least knowing there's something planned would be reassuring.

That said, I'll likely accept a hit on time and just use the 717s instead. I expect they'll be pretty usable at most times, on account of the higher frequency, slower service (putting people off) and not having come from any further than WGC.

Oh, and they may not be affected by troubles in the core...

I would have though though, that the platforms would get extended for 12 coaches at all Stations where required, before any 12 coach trains are introduced, which is what is happening on the local Reading - Waterloo to where I live.

Hence, why I think if that is planned it is very likely that 8 coach trains would be run in the meantime until the platforms have been extended, so no need to be using SDO on the last 4 carriages.

 

[bramling]

I would have though though, that the platforms would get extended for 12 coaches at all Stations where required, before any 12 coach trains are introduced, which is what is happening on the local Reading - Waterloo to where I live.

Hence, why I think if that is planned it is very likely that 8 coach trains would be run in the meantime until the platforms have been extended, so no need to be using SDO on the last 4 carriages.

Doesn't seem to be happening. It seems that even the stations on the Cambridge line will be using SDO.

It doesn't help that most of the potential platform extensions between Stevenage and Finsbury Park fall into the more awkward box.

 

[swt_passenger]

I would have though though, that the platforms would get extended for 12 coaches at all Stations where required, before any 12 coach trains are introduced, which is what is happening on the local Reading - Waterloo to where I live.

Poor comparison really, as they'll be lengthened generally for 10 car trains, but ASDO will still be used at certain stations, e.g. those between Reading and Wokingham which are not listed in the enhancement plans...

 

[MatthewRead]

Keep all 40 on Great Northern, and use them to offer a residual service to/from King's Cross as an alternative to the unreliable and uncomfortable Thameslink service!

That would seem logical

 

[MK Tom]

I know the GN 317s are going to Anglia but what's happening to the 321s?

 

[D365]

I know the GN 317s are going to Anglia but what's happening to the 321s?

Six to Anglia, destination for the remaining seven is unknown.

 

[Class315]

Unfortunately the last bit of the 387 diagram has come to an abrupt end as 2C59 has terminated at Shepreth with door problems and is running back to XHE ECS as 5E47.

 

[Failed Unit]

Six to Anglia, destination for the remaining seven is unknown.

London midland to replace the 319s? (Speculation with no insider knowledge - but gives LM a more uniform fleet)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Unfortunately the last bit of the 387 diagram has come to an abrupt end as 2C59 has terminated at Shepreth with door problems and is running back to XHE ECS as 5E47.

120 is the sinning unit (hope i can read tonight.)

 

[Class315]

London midland to replace the 319s? (Speculation with no insider knowledge - but gives LM a more uniform fleet)
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


120 is the sinning unit (hope i can read tonight.)

Appears driver was unable to release the doors at STH; thanks for the confirmation regarding the unit.

 

[Ianno87]

That would seem logical

Not when there are only *so* many trains that can be pathed over Welwyn Viaduct.

 

[Class377/5]

London midland to replace the 319s? (Speculation with no insider knowledge - but gives LM a more uniform fleet)

Unlikely as additional stock is being looked at already for LM during the HS2 building works. (Stock will be free under current announced plans btw).

 

[Failed Unit]

Unlikely as additional stock is being looked at already for LM during the HS2 building works. (Stock will be free under current announced plans btw).

I forget the Tpe ones will become surplus.

Back to the 387s. 106 had the pleasure of the sardine can tonight. One thing that was interesting was the PIS had a note that Southern users may use first class today because of the strike. Very odd to be honest as that unit goes no-where near southern as I suspect neither do the majority of the passengers. But didn't realise they can program it daily.

Anyone know why the still don't mention great northern. Just "this is the train to Cambridge" (or maybe service). I really hope the can double up the service and use SDO sometime soon. (Or give us the bin back)

 

[jon0844]

If someone was using Southern today would that count as Southern user and mean being able to go first class?!

 

[Class377/5]

I forget the Tpe ones will become surplus.

Back to the 387s. 106 had the pleasure of the sardine can tonight. One thing that was interesting was the PIS had a note that Southern users may use first class today because of the strike. Very odd to be honest as that unit goes no-where near southern as I suspect neither do the majority of the passengers. But didn't realise they can program it daily.

Anyone know why the still don't mention great northern. Just "this is the train to Cambridge" (or maybe service). I really hope the can double up the service and use SDO sometime soon. (Or give us the bin back)

The system is designed to send messages out to units. I suspect no-one thought to change these out of the TL message pool.

 

[Failed Unit]

Not sure if the diagram has changed but the 1653 Cambridge service tonight is a 317. Much to the delight of the passengers.

 

[D365]

Not sure if the diagram has changed but the 1653 Cambridge service tonight is a 317. Much to the delight of the passengers.

Long live British Rail

 

[Failed Unit]

Long live British Rail

Along with who wants a seat gets one on leaving kings cross. Progress at last. Hehe.

 

[Skimble19]

Diagrams change as of Monday with further 387s coming into service.. new services are below (includes the existing, which remain)

Morning
2R00 04:14 Kings Cross (KGX) to Letchworth (LET) - staff train
1R41 06:13 LET to KGX
2C04 07:05 KGX to Cambridge (CBG)
1P47 07:06 Peterborough (PBO) to KGX (8 car)
2C39 08:55 CBG to KGX
2R39 10:00 LET to KGX (8 car)

Afternoon
2C26 16:53 KGX to CBG
1C96 18:23 KGX to CBG (8 car)
2C59 18:55 CBG to KGX
1C21 20:15 CBG to KGX (8 car)
1P80 21:22 KGX to PBO (8 car)

 

[jamieP]

Diagrams change as of Monday with further 387s coming into service.. new services are below (includes the existing, which remain)

Morning
2R00 04:14 Kings Cross (KGX) to Letchworth (LET) - staff train
1R41 06:13 LET to KGX
2C04 07:05 Cambridge (CBG) to KGX
1P47 07:06 Peterborough (PBO) to KGX (8 car)
2C39 08:55 CBG to KGX
2R39 10:00 LET to KGX (8 car)

Afternoon
2C26 16:53 KGX to CBG
1C96 18:23 KGX to CBG (8 car)
2C59 18:55 CBG to KGX
1C21 20:15 CBG to KGX (8 car)
1P80 21:22 KGX to PBO (8 car)

Any chance you know what service will be a 387 on Sunday to get the 8 car to Peterborough ready for Monday morning?

 

[Failed Unit]

I guess the diagrams need to step up quickly over the next few weeks if the need to have a lot of the stock with Anglia by the timetable change.

 

[D365]

Wonder if the seven 321s that aren't going to Greater Anglia will remain with Great Northern for the time being.

 

[stut]

1P47 07:06 Peterborough (PBO) to KGX (8 car)

Oh, that's my regular. Will be interesting - it generally leaves Arlesey full and standing, has quite a changeover at Hitchin, then is full enough to leave passengers behind at Hitchin. Wonder if the wider corridor will help?

 

[Ianno87]

Diagrams change as of Monday with further 387s coming into service.. new services are below (includes the existing, which remain)

Morning
2R00 04:14 Kings Cross (KGX) to Letchworth (LET) - staff train
1R41 06:13 LET to KGX
2C04 07:05 Cambridge (CBG) to KGX
1P47 07:06 Peterborough (PBO) to KGX (8 car)
2C39 08:55 CBG to KGX
2R39 10:00 LET to KGX (8 car)

Afternoon
2C26 16:53 KGX to CBG
1C96 18:23 KGX to CBG (8 car)
2C59 18:55 CBG to KGX
1C21 20:15 CBG to KGX (8 car)
1P80 21:22 KGX to PBO (8 car)

2C04 should be 0705 from King's Cross to Cambridge, surely? There isn't a 0705 the other way.

Thanks for posting, by the way! Nice to see that 1C96 is going over - let's see what they're like on a non-stop run to Welwyn North...