I'm on about the fact that the rest of the electrostar fleet doesn't have this. (Except the 377/7s)...or 171s
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Class 387 to GN
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I'm on about the fact that the rest of the electrostar fleet doesn't have this. (Except the 377/7s)...or 171s
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Ah yes, I wondered how long it would be until someone noticed that there's quite a few different locations on various units. A couple seem to have the yellow line at each end (like the 365s, as well as the 387 from the GN launch), others seem to have no line but 1st stickers at one end (from TL). There are probably more, these are just what I've noticed.
If passengers are confused, I'm not surprised!
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43096
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350s, 450s, 458s too.
I can only hope that during the experimental phase they're telling RPIs to leave them alone, just as all RPIs on Thameslink have been told that the back of each 700 is declassified ALWAYS, regardless of what the PIS says (or doesn't, if not working!).
Not a 387, but the Southern 377/6/7s also have first class in that location.
Failed Unit
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My first trip on 1653 Cambridge service.
Most passengers are commenting about the reduction of seats. It left kings cross standing and is very cosy post Finsbury Park. Hopefully with the extra stock this service will be strengthened Can't comment how it is a speed as we are on the slow line.
Edit. Never got a chance to comment on ride quality because of trespassing incident at Hatfield. Interesting most passengers want the bin back, have nothing good to say about GTR. Although the can probably be bribed on that service if it was strengthened I don't think users of the 1722, 1752 and 1822 will be as impressed.
Most passengers are commenting about the reduction of seats. It left kings cross standing and is very cosy post Finsbury Park. Hopefully with the extra stock this service will be strengthened Can't comment how it is a speed as we are on the slow line.
Edit. Never got a chance to comment on ride quality because of trespassing incident at Hatfield. Interesting most passengers want the bin back, have nothing good to say about GTR. Although the can probably be bribed on that service if it was strengthened I don't think users of the 1722, 1752 and 1822 will be as impressed.
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ert47
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*stares @ Southeasterns Electrostar refresh*
Yep... maybe the next southern refurb will see a change like this.
Class377/5
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You said never. Clearly that is wrong by example. Your statement was all encompassing and incorrect.
All the same bodyshell tho (379 are different).
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Sign of things to come on GN in the peaks, I fear.
387s and 700s have fewer seats than the same length 317/321/365s.
Ah, but the trains will be longer - if so great. But most of the 700s are 8-car length, not 12. My suspicion is that many of the services on GN Cambridge branch will be 8-car (in part because the bay platforms at Cambridge are 8-car - I know there are longer platforms but they I presume they will have to run most of the trains terminating at Cambridge into the bays).
But we'll also see more trains so more seats overall - great at Off Peak times. My suspicion is that no more trains will run in the peak because the line's at capacity.
The only way I can see more trains in the peak is if 8-car services replace 4-car ones- there are only very few 4-cars in the peak and these are in the shoulders so no major advantage there. We might get a few 12-cars replacing 8-cars - if so that's good but I still have my doubts about whether this'll actually happen.
Add in ironing board seats and sandpaper seat covers and the future doesn't look great.
At the end of the day, if more people can get on to a train then it's a good thing with the growth in usage on the railway, until such time that all stations can be upgraded to take 12 car trains, or SDO is used to make it possible to stop 12 car trains at 8 car stops. Or we get new signalling that can make trains run closer together.
People can either get on a train and stand, or be left behind on the platform to try and fight their way onto the next crowded service.
On the tube, it's not such a problem if the next train is 60 seconds away. A bit more of a problem when the next train is 30 minutes away. Okay, in the peak it's probably more likely 10 or 15 minutes away, but possibly with a different stopping pattern so some trains may not be usable.
I don't see how these new trains make anything worse. There isn't a reduction in carriage length on any given train, and no timetable changes to reduce services (yet at least).
The only loss is some seats, but with each seat making it easier to move through the train (more so on the 700s than the 387s, which still feel rather cramped). If people can move along the aisles easier, they're more likely to because they know they stand a chance of getting off again. This reduces dwell times, and hopefully means more people get on without having to shout to others to move down.
All in all, I can't see many downsides - but I do speak as someone who only has to sit (or stand, rarely) on a train for 25-35 minutes. Apologies to those further out who may have an hour or more standing, who will likely not feel the same way.
People can either get on a train and stand, or be left behind on the platform to try and fight their way onto the next crowded service.
On the tube, it's not such a problem if the next train is 60 seconds away. A bit more of a problem when the next train is 30 minutes away. Okay, in the peak it's probably more likely 10 or 15 minutes away, but possibly with a different stopping pattern so some trains may not be usable.
I don't see how these new trains make anything worse. There isn't a reduction in carriage length on any given train, and no timetable changes to reduce services (yet at least).
The only loss is some seats, but with each seat making it easier to move through the train (more so on the 700s than the 387s, which still feel rather cramped). If people can move along the aisles easier, they're more likely to because they know they stand a chance of getting off again. This reduces dwell times, and hopefully means more people get on without having to shout to others to move down.
All in all, I can't see many downsides - but I do speak as someone who only has to sit (or stand, rarely) on a train for 25-35 minutes. Apologies to those further out who may have an hour or more standing, who will likely not feel the same way.
Class377/5
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Cambridge is getting
2tph 12 car 700 Cambridge North to Bighton all day
2tph 8 car 700 Cambridge to Maidstone Eastall day
2tph 387 (various lengths) Kings Cross to Ely/Kings Lynn
swt_passenger
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Doesn't really follow. Didn't they just build a big new island platform that can be used to terminate and reverse trains?
bramling
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I suspect it won't be an issue as some of the trains will be sent northwards to reverse at Cambridge North (or whatever it's being called).
(Meanwhile, once the Thameslink operation starts timekeeping will be so poor and late running so endemic, many trains won't actually reach Cambridge but instead will get turned short to make right time going back south!)
notverydeep
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On the basis of the last few weeks though, I would say that GTR have achieved what I thought impossible and (at least for my journeys) made Thameslink the most reliable out of Great Northern, Thameslink and Southern!
D365
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Yep, the semi-fast Thameslinks to Brighton (twelve-car Class 700) will reverse using the third platform at Cambridge North.
As above; Thameslink would seem like an improvement atm!
bramling
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Not saying much though.
Yesterday, as I walked through St Pancras (after alighting from my GN train which arrived at King's Cross not even right-time, but early), couldn't help noticing the first two Bedford trains were 25 and 15 minutes late respectively. Unfortunately this is pretty typical of what I see, and typical of my past experience using Thameslink, so doesn't exactly inspire confidence for the future.
Failed Unit
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Stopped short? nah. Non-stop to Cambridge/Peterborough respectively so passengers for intermediate stations get no service.
Just wait till there are 24tph looooooooool
Or they rename Hitchin as Cambridge South and turn trains back there?!
Maybe East Croydon becomes Brighton North too?
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bramling
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Yep.
The Thameslink failure apologists will point to increased frequency, which is rubbish as all the proposed GN services will be half-hourly. So one missing train at a given location equals an hour's gap - more if the next train is late.
Failed Unit
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I really feel for Welwyn north passengers. I suspect they will be skipped lots and WGC and south will need to get used to all stations.
For info 387110 is now just saying this is the service to rather than gives an operator. Very quick off the blocks from Finsbury Park. But people still generally missing the bin. Near first class today. Is this standard? Yes - it is the same as next door comes the reply. Was going to say it is all first class on this route but may get punched
For info 387110 is now just saying this is the service to rather than gives an operator. Very quick off the blocks from Finsbury Park. But people still generally missing the bin. Near first class today. Is this standard? Yes - it is the same as next door comes the reply. Was going to say it is all first class on this route but may get punched
That's good for for the Off Peak service but is there any extra capacity in the peaks?
Failed Unit
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Sort of. The current services that do kings cross - WGC (calling at new Southgate, new Barnet etc) will be 8 car class 700s. Improvements if you were booked a 6 car 313 or a 4 car whatever. But not good on the ones that were already 8 car.
My hunch is if you add all the seats together. WGC & Hatfield will be the same.
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Hope the 8 car Class 700s fit in the south facing bays at Cambridge.
Failed Unit
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Just back to the first class. Where they have put it reduces the number of first class seats by 2 compared to 2 portions behind the cab. Not sure if standard suffers. I doubt they would have got more seats where the partition is. Will pay attention on a Thameslink set.
First class will have more people passing through as at every station people will use the doors as well as anyone needed the toilet. On swt where is in the middle I think most people can access a toilet without needing to pass through first.
First class will have more people passing through as at every station people will use the doors as well as anyone needed the toilet. On swt where is in the middle I think most people can access a toilet without needing to pass through first.
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