Class 387 to GN

[stut]

Ooooh, that's one I sometimes travel on. Normally empties out quickly north of Hitchin.

The 1840 is just over 10 minutes behind by the time it reaches BIW (often less in practice), so little wonder!

I hate the 1813, but that's only because I end up getting it only when I've missed the 1743 (the 1813 HIT-BIW), usually by a matter of a few seconds!

 

[Failed Unit]

Anyone know what % of drivers are passed yet?

Seems surprising they are still no on any off-peak services and only covering 2 diagrams.

I have noticed more short formations on the 317 / 321 services. Stepping down maintenance by any chance?

But considering that overcrowding appart the 387s are supposed to be an improvement I am surprised how slow progress is considering it is proven the train works in service.

 

[stut]

12-car 387 on the 07:32 PBO-KGX this morning. Very pleasant journey.

 

[Ianno87]

12-car Class 387 currently at King's Cross, working 1743 to Peterborough

 

[class387]

Have there been any new diagrams?

 

[Class315]

1743 KGX-PBO worked by 387120+106+110 tonight.

 

[crazystripe]

If the 1743 ex KX (has normally been 12x365) was operated by 12x387, does that mean the 1813 was 12x365 today? I was under the impression that the 387 were supposed to be replacing the 321s so not sure why it was done this way round...?

 

[bramling]

If the 1743 ex KX (has normally been 12x365) was operated by 12x387, does that mean the 1813 was 12x365 today? I was under the impression that the 387 were supposed to be replacing the 321s so not sure why it was done this way round...?

Looking at the diagrams, I'd expect the 1813 to become 3x365. Both evening trips come out of Hornsey and stable at Peterborough, so this works in terms of stock balance. The morning working is a simple replacement of 3x321, coming off Peterborough and stabling at Hornsey after the morning peak.

So that's now 6x321 replaced, which is half of the 12x diagrams.

 

[jon0844]

On a 387 into King's Cross this morning, but with Cambridge on the front and every stop from WGC south being 'next stop Finsbury Park'. At least it was right when we got to Finsbury Park, but it then said the same as we got to King's Cross.

I would have expected such a new train to have a PIS that was set up properly on each run. Wouldn't the driver enter a code at the start of the journey?

There were no audio announcements, just the scrolling display. Also no 'Thameslink' text, or indeed 'Great Northern'. No operator mention at all, just that it was for Cambridge, next stop Finsbury Park.

Pretty poor for 2016 IMO.

 

[D365]

Pretty poor for 2016 IMO.

Still better than most of the 365s isn't it?

 

[jon0844]

Still better than most of the 365s isn't it?

Yes, but they're around 20 years old!

When will we be able to build a train where it's easy for a driver to set an information system to aid passengers? I really don't think it's acceptable for it to be considered almost optional.

The same goes for the 700s. The same goes for the 365s which have often not worked (some routes have no codes, so the system isn't used) and now we have the 317s that don't always do anything except say the time is 00:00. GTR keeps saying it's working on a fix, but how long has this been?

I can live with the trains saying Thameslink instead of Great Northern but some people rely on information given via screens, or speakers. It was an off-peak train, so not necessarily full of commuters who know where they are at any given moment, almost as well as the driver!

 

[samuelmorris]

Would that not fail the PRM-TSI spec in such a condition? The operator is in my mind a 'nice to have' but a means for the hard of sight or hard of hearing to identify the calling pattern of a service are essential to some, and convenient for many more.

 

[causton]

A 387 announcement. Note, it did not say the train called at Ashwell & Morden when it did, with the driver manually correcting the announcement.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B8msFFcTw-q3TzN4Wm5WSG9NTGM

 

[bramling]

Still better than most of the 365s isn't it?

365s are good as gold when the system is set up.

It was posted on here that the discs went missing so the software is impossible to update - stopping patterns have changed since the 1990s when the system was designed.

 

[Hadders]

I find the auto announcements on the 365s about right. Good clarity with none of the 'wibble' we seem to get on newer trains.

It has been reported on here that the software discs were lost but I still think the announcements are fine considering the system is 20 years old.

I wonder how the system on the 387s or 700s will be performing in 2036?

 

[D365]

They're fine when they work, however the PIS electronics have become quite frail in recent years.

 

[jon0844]

365s are good as gold when the system is set up.

It was posted on here that the discs went missing so the software is impossible to update - stopping patterns have changed since the 1990s when the system was designed.

It should mean that the ROSCO is made to replace the system if they are ever to be cascaded elsewhere, not just use that as an excuse forever more.

I assume that for the majority of use on GN, they'll be fine as it's only a few obscure diagrams where it appears they have to be turned off. However, it would be nice for the driver to do announcements whenever possible, although that doesn't help the deaf.

Perhaps if station platform signs were more plentiful, and lit better (maybe even backlit via LED) at night then we'd all have a fighting chance. Some journeys in the dark are certainly quite testing when there are no announcements at all, and you look out without being able to see where you are! You don't need to have a disability to struggle.

 

[D365]

It should mean that the ROSCO is made to replace the system if they are ever to be cascaded elsewhere, not just use that as an excuse forever more.

For how many years now has it been promised that a new PIS is to be retrofitted anyway.

 

[causton]

For how many years now has it been promised that a new PIS is to be retrofitted anyway.

I would prefer the old broken one than the new one I guess they would put in, the rubbish TrainFX system on the 319s with the flickery awful screens that give me a headache!

 

[jon0844]

For how many years now has it been promised that a new PIS is to be retrofitted anyway.

A fair few. It wasn't even that long ago that it was stated the PIS was getting upgraded, but it never happened.

I accepted aircon wasn't likely to happen. Nobody absolutely needs it (nice as it is) but PIS, to me, is pretty much essential.

I know some dislike all the extra announcements, but that's another argument. At the very least people should know where a train is going and stopping, and when it is approaching a station.

I would prefer the old broken one than the new one I guess they would put in, the rubbish TrainFX system on the 319s with the flickery awful screens that give me a headache!

Are they working now? I was on a 319 with the text scrolling on the screen, but still the stickers saying 'coming soon' or 'on test' or whatever. How bloody long does it take to test a system that I assume was off-the-shelf and hardly custom built!

 

[causton]

Are they working now? I was on a 319 with the text scrolling on the screen, but still the stickers saying 'coming soon' or 'on test' or whatever. How bloody long does it take to test a system that I assume was off-the-shelf and hardly custom built!

The LM and Northern ones have them.

You want my conspiracy theory, which is most probably correct?

They refurbished the trains/added the accessible toilets etc under TL and added those PIS holders (probably with no electronics inside) with the "Coming soon..." sticker on it, not for TL customers at all, but to save a job when the unit moved from TL to its next owner, and the PIS was never designed to actually work on those trains when they were with TL!

 

[jon0844]

But at least one TL train had the screens on, under the sticker. Albeit a test message - but certainly running some software.

 

[crazystripe]

I've ridden a few 387 services so far, and one thing that has surprised me is that they don't seem to be able to regain lost time in the timetable if a signal has led to a 2-3 minute delay (often around WGC heading north)... I was expecting an almost brand new train to have faster acceleration than the older existing units, but it doesn't feel like they do (versus 365 at least... clearly ANYTHING beats a 321 off the line) and another thing is that the door opening/closing routine of the 387s feels long and protracted which again doesn't help delayed services get back on schedule. Any thoughts? Are the drivers still being somewhat cautious?

 

[D365]

Don't know what you were expecting, some sort of rocket ship? The Electrostars are based off the Networker Express platform, however the only significant difference in the traction package is the adoption of IGBT inverters.

 

[Bald Rick]

I've ridden a few 387 services so far, and one thing that has surprised me is that they don't seem to be able to regain lost time in the timetable if a signal has led to a 2-3 minute delay (often around WGC heading north)... I was expecting an almost brand new train to have faster acceleration than the older existing units, but it doesn't feel like they do (versus 365 at least... clearly ANYTHING beats a 321 off the line) and another thing is that the door opening/closing routine of the 387s feels long and protracted which again doesn't help delayed services get back on schedule. Any thoughts? Are the drivers still being somewhat cautious?

The drivers will still be acclimatising to the units and their door operation. Plus it is high peak leaf fall season, and drivers will be that little bit more careful, particularly in the wet.

 

[crazystripe]

Don't know what you were expecting, some sort of rocket ship? The Electrostars are based off the Networker Express platform, however the only significant difference in the traction package is the adoption of IGBT inverters.

Not expecting any miracles but surely some degree of progress over a 20+ year old design. I understand the power output of the 365s is c.1700hp whereas the the 387s have over 2200hp. Presumably some of this is offset by being heavier?

 

[glbotu]

I'm still surprised that modern PIS don't just require you to enter the headcode into the system and get the data off the database via GSM-R (or even a 3/4G channel), given realtimetrains (et al) can do that via an API.

 

[MrTurbostar170]

Apologies if this has already been covered, but do the 387's have diagrams on a Saturday yet?

 

[ungreat]

I've ridden a few 387 services so far, and one thing that has surprised me is that they don't seem to be able to regain lost time in the timetable if a signal has led to a 2-3 minute delay (often around WGC heading north)... I was expecting an almost brand new train to have faster acceleration than the older existing units, but it doesn't feel like they do (versus 365 at least... clearly ANYTHING beats a 321 off the line) and another thing is that the door opening/closing routine of the 387s feels long and protracted which again doesn't help delayed services get back on schedule. Any thoughts? Are the drivers still being somewhat cautious?

I had my first in service driving trip on a 387 on Monday,having trained on them in August
Yes there will be an element of caution...unused to them in service,plus "slippy season" and also getting used to their different braking capabilities.

I found the 387 to be far superior to anything I've driven unit wise

 

[bramling]

I had my first in service driving trip on a 387 on Monday,having trained on them in August
Yes there will be an element of caution...unused to them in service,plus "slippy season" and also getting used to their different braking capabilities.

I found the 387 to be far superior to anything I've driven unit wise

It's a shame, if they didn't have the disgusting ironing-board seats (and perhaps a nicer first class, not in a silly location) they would be superb trains. Although they're still massively superior to the class 700, unfortunately the class 365 wins out. My impression from talking to GN users is this verdict is typical.