Class 380

[Bletchleyite]

First go on one this evening. What a contrast from the 350 and 185 - the long central section, massive windows and even larger luggage racks coupled with the large amount of decently spaced table seating makes this an excellent InterCity style EMU that just happens to have suburban door layout and be used on a suburban(ish) route!

Very nice piece of kit indeed. Only thing I'd change would be the lighting which is a bit harsh, and the covers are solid and already accumulating muck. Definitely better than the Class 185, and noticeably wider too.

Bodes rather well for the Desiro Verve, if TPE perhaps are considering some of those.

 

[mbreckers]

Agreed on the lighting, if your on a 380 at night after a long day they are just way too bright

Oh, and during the summer, the air con can actually be too good and make the train too cold

 

[380101]

Agreed on the lighting, if your on a 380 at night after a long day they are just way too bright

Oh, and during the summer, the air con can actually be too good and make the train too cold

We can control the air-conditioning temp on the HMI screen in the cab. +1 +2 +3 normal -1 -2 -3 are the available options to us. No idea what temperature "normal" is set at, but many pax and on train staff find that too hot!

 

[mbreckers]

We can control the air-conditioning temp on the HMI screen in the cab. +1 +2 +3 normal -1 -2 -3 are the available options to us. No idea what temperature "normal" is set at, but many pax and on train staff find that too hot!

I only ever find its too warm at peak time, but thats probably due to the numbers on the train at the time (and the one time I was on a 380 and the air-con broke down in the front carriage, in the middle of the summer, on a peak journey, now that was the hottest journey I've ever experienced.)

 

[southern442]

Agreed on the lighting, if your on a 380 at night after a long day they are just way too bright

Oh, and during the summer, the air con can actually be too good and make the train too cold

The Mark 3-derived family of units are the best for late night ambiance. Why haven't people realized that dimmer lighting is what people like the best?

I haven't actually traveled on a 380 yet but they seem to be quite well built, with a nice interior.

 

[jon0844]

There should be light sensors to adjust lighting brightness automatically, like noise sensors to adjust the volume of announcements (although on some GTR 317s that can mean when they fail, you get deafened as they go full volume).

 

[TRAX]

I find that brightness is a problem on most modern transport stock, be it train or bus.

On all modern trains and buses I find the LED (as it is mostly now) lighting much too bright - I like my cosiness.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I find that brightness is a problem on most modern transport stock, be it train or bus.

On all modern trains and buses I find the LED (as it is mostly now) lighting much too bright - I like my cosiness.

LED lighting can be wonderfully cosy - warm white spot lighting. You should give a Borismaster a go for how you can achieve that feel with LEDs.

 

[TRAX]

Yes I know, there are many more lighting possibilities with LEDs, but I was reflecting that it got too bright now that the technology was introduced to PT, as if manufacturers didn't take the time to use all the possibilities of LED technology.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes I know, there are many more lighting possibilities with LEDs, but I was reflecting that it got too bright now that the technology was introduced to PT, as if manufacturers didn't take the time to use all the possibilities of LED technology.

To be fair it all went wrong when fGW discovered daylight tubes.

Even daylight lighting can be done well, though - the Irish Hyundai DMUs have daylight colour LEDs but they are indirect and quite subdued.

 

[najaB]

The thing is, lighting on public transport is intended for safety not for comfort. Bright lighting helps eradicate hidden trip hazards lurking in dark corners. And that is the operator's primary concern.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The thing is, lighting on public transport is intended for safety not for comfort. Bright lighting helps eradicate hidden trip hazards lurking in dark corners. And that is the operator's primary concern.

The thing is, it can achieve both. I find that the Pendolino's setup is about right. As is, in a different way, the Irish units I mentioned above.

Your comment is similar to the one that came out at the time of the Turbostar - "overhead luggage racks and gangways are a thing of the past as they don't meet current safety rules" - a statement that was proven to be patently false as later stock (Desiros particularly, but also other stock - including the Class 172's gangways) features good-sized overhead racks and gangways, thus proving that it was simply that the Turbostar is a very poor design in those two regards.

And, as for buses, if it can be done on the Borismaster it can be done on every bus.

 

[najaB]

The thing is, it can achieve both. I find that the Pendolino's setup is about right. As is, in a different way, the Irish units I mentioned above.

I know it *can* be achieved, but that's largely by accident rather than intention. And I find Pendolinos to be way too dim, by the way. (Proving that you can't please everyone all the time.)

 

[hassaanhc]

The Mark 3-derived family of units are the best for late night ambiance. Why haven't people realized that dimmer lighting is what people like the best?

I haven't actually traveled on a 380 yet but they seem to be quite well built, with a nice interior.

Not one of those sweeping statements again! What about all the SAD sufferers who would much prefer the bright lighting? Or those who have problems with eyesight?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I know it *can* be achieved, but that's largely by accident rather than intention.

Do you have evidence of that? The interior lighting setup in the Pendolino and Voyager is very similar, as such I don't think it could have been by anything other than design, being as how the two trains by two different builders have largely identical interiors.

The Electrostar has similarly subdued lighting, albeit in a different style.

 

[najaB]

Do you have evidence of that? The interior lighting setup in the Pendolino and Voyager is very similar, as such I don't think it could have been by anything other than design, being as how the two trains by two different builders have largely identical interiors.

The internal design was similar as they were specified by the same TOC and they were able to customise the interior a lot more than would be possible today. More recent designs prioritise function over form and I don't see that changing much any time soon.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The internal design was similar as they were specified by the same TOC and they were able to customise the interior a lot more than would be possible today. More recent designs prioritise function over form and I don't see that changing much any time soon.

Clearly not by accident, though.

 

[southern442]

Not one of those sweeping statements again! What about all the SAD sufferers who would much prefer the bright lighting? Or those who have problems with eyesight?

I would've thought that people with eyesight problems would see much better if the lighting was softer on the eye, as that wouldn't hurt your eyes as much.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I would've thought that people with eyesight problems would see much better if the lighting was softer on the eye, as that wouldn't hurt your eyes as much.

What really needs to be avoided is the use of cheap white LEDs. These have a very narrow spectral range, and in my view make it hard to see properly whatever the brightness. They are found in cheap LED torches and camping lanterns - but also in some rail applications, such as the cheap rubbish used in Chiltern's Mk3s.

 

[jon0844]

I know it *can* be achieved, but that's largely by accident rather than intention. And I find Pendolinos to be way too dim, by the way. (Proving that you can't please everyone all the time.)

Colour temperature and brightness should never be by accident.

 

[najaB]

Colour temperature and brightness should never be by accident.

Oh, I know that. What I'm saying is that the colour temperature and brightness are chosen primarily with safety in mind. If it happens to be pleasant then that's the happy coincidence. I can't see any rolling stock designer saying "Well, it really should be brighter to meet the RSSB standards, but I like the way it looks."

 

[jon0844]

Brightness should be adjustable, and linked to the outside brightness.

It's good to see a lot of street lighting doing this, albeit primarily for power saving reasons.

 

[southern442]

Brightness should be adjustable, and linked to the outside brightness.

It's good to see a lot of street lighting doing this, albeit primarily for power saving reasons.

I agree with this idea. I think that longer distance services should have mood lighting or similar as an addition.

 

[Southsider]

So the lights are a it bright but they they can't half get off the mark quickly - it's their acceleration that impresses me most.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I would've thought that people with eyesight problems would see much better if the lighting was softer on the eye, as that wouldn't hurt your eyes as much.

Indeed, and we must not forget about those who have to wear dark glasses to protect their eyesight from bright lights.

Very bright light from all directions also hides trip hazards by eliminating shadows - I've stubbed my toes many more times in full bright lighting than I have in darker conditions.

 

[TRAX]

Contrast can be indeed more important than brightness.

 

[jon0844]

Indeed, and we must not forget about those who have to wear dark glasses to protect their eyesight from bright lights.

Very bright light from all directions also hides trip hazards by eliminating shadows - I've stubbed my toes many more times in full bright lighting than I have in darker conditions.

Diffused lighting, lighting under seats (perhaps directed down to the aisles) and other things like that could make a big difference here.

It's clear that the chances of an accident are tiny, especially one that requires a speedy evacuation, but there's actually still a small safety benefit from having less bright lighting.

With LEDs you can really go to town with innovative ideas, and with pretty low costs (as long as you designed it ahead of construction). I mean, lighting under every seat would be easy with many seats having power for sockets/USB.

 

[380101]

So the lights are a it bright but they they can't half get off the mark quickly - it's their acceleration that impresses me most.

3 car is 0-60mph in 39 seconds. I timed it one day leaving a station a few weeks ago and rail conditions weren't the best. I would reckon a 6 car would be even quicker with the 4 power cars to 2 trailers ratio. 4/7 cars are noticeably slower. For example; a 3 car leaving Johnstone on the down line, on greens, reaches line speed of 90mph at Miliken Park; a 4 car is almost at Howwood before it hits 90.

 

[notadriver]

3 car is 0-60mph in 39 seconds. I timed it one day leaving a station a few weeks ago and rail conditions weren't the best. I would reckon a 6 car would be even quicker with the 4 power cars to 2 trailers ratio. 4/7 cars are noticeably slower. For example; a 3 car leaving Johnstone on the down line, on greens, reaches line speed of 90mph at Miliken Park; a 4 car is almost at Howwood before it hits 90.

Out of curiosity which station is that from?

 

[380101]

Out of curiosity which station is that from?

I timed it whilst leaving a few stations on the Ayr line. Only going by the clock on the HMI screen in the cab so may be + or - a second.